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On June 01 2011 06:05 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 05:21 RuFF(TR) wrote:On June 01 2011 05:05 PH wrote:
What is the aim of this build? Is it meant to deny or slow the expansion or kill the P outright? The aim for this build is to prevent getting cheesed by protoss. Terrans are exposed to a lot of cheesy builds, but when I created this build long ago it basicly countered all cheeses. Though you are set at a disadvantage if the Protoss goes collosus, you can still easily micro using vikings and raven defensive drones, 1 or 2 collosus won't do much to your army if you split. It sounds like, in your own words, this is a coinflip build against cheese. If that's the case, aren't there better all-in builds that punish cheese? This doesn't even seem that good against many cheese builds.
I question how you transition off 1 base mass marines. If I understand correctly, you're going to hit the Col. timing with nothing but 1 base of marine/medivac with reactor vikings and no marauders... which is kinda not great. You will have possibly a second base going up but it seems not that comfortable.
I also don't see how this is better than bunkers due to the above. The general response to Toss cheese is well placed bunkers and enough marines or a large enough ball of MM.
I mean, I do see some interesting things though like medivac ferries to save marines and stuff but I'm not quite sold. Guess I'll watch some more rep. Also, why not combat shield before stim. You can't abuse stim effectively without medivacs and aren't going to push out so aren't CS marines in bunkers enough to hold pretty much anything?
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On June 01 2011 07:02 Zombo Joe wrote:
Whats your usual midgame transition if you don't win outright?
Marine, Viking, Raven.
Marine, Viking, Banshee, Raven
Viking, Banshee, Battle Cruiser.
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On June 01 2011 08:32 RuFF(TR) wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 07:02 Zombo Joe wrote:
Whats your usual midgame transition if you don't win outright? Marine, Viking, Raven. Marine, Viking, Banshee, Raven Viking, Banshee, Battle Cruiser.
Sounds good but you don't play too many HT first Protosses do you? In all of my PvTs I don't get colossi until late in the game, preferring Immortals and HT since they can together handle anything and I am more mobile than if I were to rely on colossi that early. Plus blind viking production is generally a bad idea, no?
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If they go Templar then you can intigrate a few ghosts, just like how there should be a few medivacs. The main army is listed above though as a transition.
Though ultimately, transitions are made based on what you see from the enemy. However I always go straight into Viking Raven Marine after the Marine Medivac. Most or all protoss get collosus by that time and not templar.
Templar come in the late game.
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Great job, i like this very much but im going to try to make a variaton with 19 cc and maybe add ghosts
I'm a rank 60 Diamond
I really like that idea of adding ghosts into the mix because the build already calls for a barracks with tech lab so might as well add the ghost academy. Sure the timing attack maybe later but the ghost's EMP should deal with the Collosus and the drain the energy off the Sentry if done right which is the main weakness of the build.
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I'm curious about your ravens. Do you lift your starport to a techlab? Do you add another starport and make a techlab? Do you stop making medivacs so you can make ravens?
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On June 02 2011 12:25 guN-viCe wrote:
I'm curious about your ravens. Do you lift your starport to a techlab? Do you add another starport and make a techlab? Do you stop making medivacs so you can make ravens?
I usually stop making medivacs and making vikings / ravens when I have a good number of medivacs.
I make another starport with a techlab, unless I get DT rushed. If there are DT's I go ahead and swop to a techlab real quick.
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i have a question. When u commence your timing attack, do you attack as one primary group into a protoss base or u attack and drop at the same time?
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Love the build. Allows a quick stim-timing with possibilites of escaping zealots through cute micro(Slag Pits replay) and is also, as you say a safe bet against cheeses.
Well played, sir!
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Thanks ruff, good to see you're back, you could also suggest double drop with 8 marines at expo, while going 4 marauders in the back. Or straight up 8 marauders, which roll any protoss army without charge/blink.
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On June 02 2011 18:21 DreamRaider wrote:
i have a question. When u commence your timing attack, do you attack as one primary group into a protoss base or u attack and drop at the same time?
I usually group the medivacs with the marines, either doing a drop or a primary attack. You could do a drop with your third medivac while attacking for example to through them off. If your multitasking is up to pare.
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On June 02 2011 22:19 TheSurgeonTV wrote:
Thanks ruff, good to see you're back, you could also suggest double drop with 8 marines at expo, while going 4 marauders in the back. Or straight up 8 marauders, which roll any protoss army without charge/blink.
Good to see you Surgeon hope you are still casting games! You have the voice and initiative to do so. Always loved your casting.
The marauders is a possibility but that requires changing your build entirely with techlabs on your rax and risking getting hit by air. Also Marauders aren't that good for killing off workers fast. :o
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Ruff,
You're my savior. I'm going to try this out.
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On June 04 2011 10:36 Trump wrote:
Ruff,
You're my savior. I'm going to try this out.
Means a lot coming from another Grand Master player! =)
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I saw this build in a replay today, I believe it was Sjow vs Adelscott.
Sjow put a sweet tactic on this build, he snuck his way around on metal and just basically made a stim sprint right to the back of the mineral line, to use that agaisnt the zeals. Then once the P FF's he just simply picked everything up. and went to the other min line. He kept going back and forth til he did a ton of dmg.
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Another heads up I forgot to mention, this also stops phoenix harrase from toss players.
I don't run into many toss that do it, but this build protects the mineral line as well as gets you that missle turret.
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but it certinatly looks like one of the piqliq build variants lol, I was watching somebodys stream and they were revieving replays vs piqliq and it was actually same thing
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This build sounds horibble. Even gateway units destroy it soem guardians hield with toss + armor will maek those marines shoot with rubber bullets and mass blinekrs will destroy it to if you face someone with good micro.
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EPT
