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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
its a good build i just have a few queries: What if a decent terran scouts you? leaves his scout scv there forever seeing as how you have no stalker. He'd see gas stopped being mined, you expo go up, probes cut. They would just pressure better and earlier then he did. Also, when do you start probe production again? | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
EDIT: I'd like to thank Keilah for his contributions and his time, as well as everyone who has contributed here. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 07 2011 06:36 ThatGuy89 wrote: pretty sure i saw nani using this in MLG against gretorp especially - i know nani and HuK are good friends so probably devised it together or w/e its a good build i just have a few queries: What if a decent terran scouts you? leaves his scout scv there forever seeing as how you have no stalker. He'd see gas stopped being mined, you expo go up, probes cut. They would just pressure better and earlier then he did. Also, when do you start probe production again? If he scouts you first just put probes back on and do a slightly less greedy 1gate fe if you so please. This is pretty much the only thing that has been discussed in this thread so I encourage you to go back and check it out. To your second point Build Order + Show Spoiler + 9 Pylon (10 CB nex) 13 Gate (2nd CB once 1st finishes) 14 Gas (can be on 15*) 16 Pylon (HuK makes it on 15 but if you're human you can't always make it on 15 w/o brief probe cut , and it's not like you cap yourself making probes with 16pylon ^^) 17 Core, mine 50 gas**; WG @100% CC, dump ALL CB on WG 20 Nexus (19 if you lose the probe) CUT PROBES RESUME HARVESTING GAS 20 gateway 20 gateway RESUME PROBES 21 queue first stalker from gateway, do not CB XX pylon when you can afford it, preferably proxied if the distance is long. 100% WG, warp in 3 stalkers and poke with all 4 | ||
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SC2TheDroid
United States54 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
How would you stop proxy rax marauders? Not the easily scoutable kinds with pure marines and no OC, but the kind where you're playing a no name in a clan war but it's actually Namhcir smurfing and your scouting probe sees nothing weird. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 08 2011 02:03 iamke55 wrote: Naniwa was spotted using this build at Columbus. Success! How would you stop proxy rax marauders? Not the easily scoutable kinds with pure marines and no OC, but the kind where you're playing a no name in a clan war but it's actually Namhcir smurfing and your scouting probe sees nothing weird. Haha I am not sure about that. I'll have to have ngry or murder do it against me later today. I'm sure it won't be pretty though :D | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
It shows what happens when you try to double tech lab rush one who is HuKking. http://replayfu.com/download/20QhDs | ||
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Crue
Australia47 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
 I tried it out and crushed the 2rax prod which usually gives me so many problems when I 2gate robo expand. And you put your Nexus down more than 2 minutes earlier than that build too... | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
Check out 1:15:00 He does the build that has been slightly adjusted to account for WG change!! how cool! edit: Note that he mines gas normally and doesn't cb his WG as hard. He apparently saves the CB for a faster 2nd round of stalkers for which he has exactly enough gas, but gets supply blocked  a pretty baller innovation, I must say, HuK | ||
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Dhul
Finland52 Posts
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3579 Posts
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Keilah
731 Posts
On June 07 2011 06:50 Alejandrisha wrote: I have updated the OP with a version that is slightly adjusted for the WG nerf. The original build is ok, but it's sooooo this past April. EDIT: I'd like to thank Keilah for his contributions and his time, as well as everyone who has contributed here. thx for the recognition sir =] | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
Here we see why 2 maurader + 1 marine push off of 1rax expand is suicide against this build (especially with rush distance.) http://replayfu.com/download/xNP14 This replay made me worry about something, though. Because you delay the 2nd and 3rd gates by getting a probe and a stalker before you get them, I'm thinking of cutting that probe until after gateways are up and perhaps mining less gas. EDIT: This is significant because I can't remove him from my natural until WG is complete. If T commits to something in my natural with a bunker, it he might force me to break it without being cost effective. Just something to think about! | ||
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Regina
Netherlands148 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 12 2011 05:04 Regina wrote: dont like this build at all, doesnt get alot of units till 5:30 and pressuring with 4 stalkers against a bunker is LOL, there are much better openings around imho What about pressuring a bunker with 4 stalkers is lol exactly? You never take hull damage and you force the terran to repair it which takes away mining time and costs money. You can pick off marines that are rallied too close or at least get free hits before he pulls them back. What else are you going to do with your units? Keep them in your mineral line? | ||
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
I think huk does something like: 20 wg -> chorno'd I believe 4 times until completion 20 nexus 20 stalker -> stalker before adding two gates 22-> probe 23-> 2 additional gateways When stalker pops he makes one sentry, second gas and third pylon Then when wg tech finishes he does his usual 4 stalker poke. This build does really damn well against harass builds (hellion, banshees), but I've seen HuK being overrun quite a bit by simply bio units, with no harass at all because: 1. He techs fast collosus, and gets hit with a timing just before his first collosus finishes. 2. He makes 6 gateways, and gets hit as he is further advancing his tech tree or expanding to his third. In terms of holding off stuff, I think the sentry allows you to hold a marine/scv allin if you sac the nexus. You'll be still ahead because they will have pulled all their scvs, and you will have 3 gates and possible have killed many of their scvs with your 4 stalkers. Against a 3 rax HuK makes it look really easy. 4 stalkers give you lots of early firepower, so if you see an early 3 rax (with concussive shells really early), you can safely hold it off by warping in additional 3 zealots. Against a 3 rax stim You should probably warp in additional 3 stalkers and pull probes. If you warp in zealots the MM can just ignore your zealots and own your stalkers. Against something like a marauders expand I think this build kind of suffers because a bunker in their nat completely nullifies your harass and you still need to warp units in in case of early 2 base timings by the terran. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On June 12 2011 05:13 peidongyang wrote: Actually I think huk changed his build a little, since with his previous build the gateways finished but left him little wiggle room against either a really early reaper or marine/scv attack mentioned by the OP. I think huk does something like: 20 wg -> chorno'd I believe 4 times until completion 20 nexus 20 stalker -> stalker before adding two gates 22-> probe 23-> 2 additional gateways When stalker pops he makes one sentry, second gas and third pylon Then when wg tech finishes he does his usual 4 stalker poke. This build does really damn well against harass builds (hellion, banshees), but I've seen HuK being overrun quite a bit by simply bio units, with no harass at all because: 1. He techs fast collosus, and gets hit with a timing just before his first collosus finishes. 2. He makes 6 gateways, and gets hit as he is further advancing his tech tree or expanding to his third. In terms of holding off stuff, I think the sentry allows you to hold a marine/scv allin if you sac the nexus. You'll be still ahead because they will have pulled all their scvs, and you will have 3 gates and possible have killed many of their scvs with your 4 stalkers. Against a 3 rax HuK makes it look really easy. 4 stalkers give you lots of early firepower, so if you see an early 3 rax (with concussive shells really early), you can safely hold it off by warping in additional 3 zealots. Against a 3 rax stim You should probably warp in additional 3 stalkers and pull probes. If you warp in zealots the MM can just ignore your zealots and own your stalkers. Against something like a marauders expand I think this build kind of suffers because a bunker in their nat completely nullifies your harass and you still need to warp units in in case of early 2 base timings by the terran. Yes the difference in the updated build in the OP and the one from HuK's vod is what happens at 20 food. I still haven't figured what is best, get a probe and a stalker or just a stalker before the 2 gates. It seems like you should skip that probe for the time being so you can get your gates up just a bit faster to defend against a bio all-in with a bunker. The greatest challenge with any new build is finding a strong transition. A lot of times HuK will add 2 additional gateways before adding more gas which is good in the short term but very weak once the terran gets medivac tech. And remaining on 3 gates when you get additional gases might help you tech stronger, but it leaves you very vulnerable to bio timings. The solution might be getting a 4th gate and adding 2 gases and forgoing a robo for slightly faster upgrades and charge. The robo is primarily used for observers with this build (I find going colossus after this opening very, very risky) and you might not necessarily need observers on the map at this time. The gas problem really comes up once your forge(s) and twilight finish. You need 300+ gas just for upgrade and charge, meanwhile you can't afford anything but zealots from your gateways. But the more I do the build the more I understand what I can afford at what times so this can only get better. | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
I think the best FE build are ones where you get 1 stalker out asap with chrono first. That way terran can't scout the FE and all in. 26 or so is the fastest I ever FE v T. | ||
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