On May 22 2011 00:03 Innovation wrote: What is annoying (but I guess it's also a blessing depending how you look at it) is that terran and protoss have these cheeses that are so amazingly strong and easy to execute and zerg are stuck trying to hang on playing standard games. I'm not saying IMBA i'm saying that zerg players when they win against terran or protoss usually do so by strong fundamental play and struggle their way with blood, sweat, devotion, and tears into masters. While we cry about #1 rated master or grandmasters that have no idea how to play past 10-12 minutes in a game. Or the poor high level diamond zergs that probably deserve masters but just can't quite get promoted even though they're fundamentaly better then 50% of masters. So that's the downside....but here's the good side....if zergs keep practicing and don't let themselves get depressed and keep practicing then they can have the satisfaction that when they get to masters or GM that they really, REALLY deserve it.
As if I, a nooby Terran dont get banelingbusted every 2nd TvZ (which is sadly true, every 2nd game Im getting banelingusted and , what i can say is cheesing or some kind of all-in, from a zerg) Terran and Protoss always cheese their way to higher leagues, and only Zerg do it with skill and martyrlike practice... :/
On May 22 2011 00:03 Innovation wrote: What is annoying (but I guess it's also a blessing depending how you look at it) is that terran and protoss have these cheeses that are so amazingly strong and easy to execute and zerg are stuck trying to hang on playing standard games. I'm not saying IMBA i'm saying that zerg players when they win against terran or protoss usually do so by strong fundamental play and struggle their way with blood, sweat, devotion, and tears into masters. While we cry about #1 rated master or grandmasters that have no idea how to play past 10-12 minutes in a game. Or the poor high level diamond zergs that probably deserve masters but just can't quite get promoted even though they're fundamentaly better then 50% of masters. So that's the downside....but here's the good side....if zergs keep practicing and don't let themselves get depressed and keep practicing then they can have the satisfaction that when they get to masters or GM that they really, REALLY deserve it.
Name some of the strong protoss cheeses atm? After patch 1.3.3 there hasn't been any, atleast I can't come up with anything
I faced it against a diamond terran who did exactly this, by bringing all of his scvs. I held it because I went for a 15 hatch and had enough creep to start a spine crawler, I just ignored the scvs and went for the marines with slow lings and all my drones. On close positions I don't think you can survive this though if you go for 15 hatch.
Edit : And shift attacking the marines with the spine crawlers worked well, if you don't it will focus on the scvs.
Plat Zerg, here (yes, and utter baddie, I know). Faced this yesterday and cackled with glee after seeing the low Barracks and Depot. The guy got it going way too late (moving out around 5:10, rather than arriving at that time) and I held it off with just a few cycles of speedlings and a pair of queens. I lost no drones, overlords, or anything else like that. Banelings or spine crawlers would have only increased the one-sidedness.
Let this be a warning to any lower league players who attempt this blindly! You still need a bit of macro/micro skill to hit zerg players when it hurts, especially if they play careful at all.
If he had pulled it off at the proper timing, I would have had to pull drones and suchlike for any hope of surviving, but my point remains. This cheese is only as strong as your opponent's ignorance/greed/poor decision making.
On May 21 2011 19:26 Zoia wrote: Video I made showing some people how to do this build. Being a mid - high level masters terran I agree that this build is fucking insane. Enjoy
Nice video ! Your execution of it isn't really perfect though, maybe you could have casted one of my replays against the pros (ToD or Mondragon for example). If anyone ever casts one of the games I played i'll be glad to add it to the OP btw
Also, I'm not a plat level protoss !
Yeah I'll commentate one of your games and I also changed the title of the video and added an annotation explaining that you are plat skill level terran and mid masters toss
That would be awesome ^^ I've always wanted to have a commentated game of myself and it is my birthday after all :D
K. So its one of those strats you blind counter since u can't scout it. So its basically how terran deals with p all the time. I'm not shedding tears for anyone. PS Downramp all ins aren't new. But grats on your wins
On May 22 2011 02:48 Kluey wrote: How does protoss deal with this?
chrono stalkers out of 2 gates. Poke and confirm he is allining. Build 3 pylons above ramp to block. You will have now 5 stalkers behind the wall picking off marines and scvs. Pull probes when he breaks trough, altough it might even not be necessary.
I just dealt with someone who did this with ease. The key is to wall off. If you don't, it is almost impossible to hold. Just wall off, no matter whether your units are stuck on the inside or outside, just do it. This should give you enough time to kill most of his scvs and to get out 3+ stalkers to deal with the marines. If you wall off with sturdy building such as gateways, it will take so much time to destroy them that you should be able to suffer no casualties whatsoever.
On May 22 2011 02:48 Kluey wrote: How does protoss deal with this?
chrono stalkers out of 2 gates. Poke and confirm he is allining. Build 3 pylons above ramp to block. You will have now 5 stalkers behind the wall picking off marines and scvs. Pull probes when he breaks trough, altough it might even not be necessary.
You won't have 300 minerals to spare and have enough to continue making stalkers. Just not possible.
You should scout the all-in and have 1 zealot, 1 stalker and 2 sentries, chronoboosted. Forcefield your ramp twice to buy time for 2 more stalkers and WG tech, split your units and pull probes and with a bit of micro you should be ok.
On May 22 2011 00:03 Innovation wrote: What is annoying (but I guess it's also a blessing depending how you look at it) is that terran and protoss have these cheeses that are so amazingly strong and easy to execute and zerg are stuck trying to hang on playing standard games. I'm not saying IMBA i'm saying that zerg players when they win against terran or protoss usually do so by strong fundamental play and struggle their way with blood, sweat, devotion, and tears into masters. While we cry about #1 rated master or grandmasters that have no idea how to play past 10-12 minutes in a game. Or the poor high level diamond zergs that probably deserve masters but just can't quite get promoted even though they're fundamentaly better then 50% of masters. So that's the downside....but here's the good side....if zergs keep practicing and don't let themselves get depressed and keep practicing then they can have the satisfaction that when they get to masters or GM that they really, REALLY deserve it.
Actually, I think that this is way more frustrating for legit Terrans than for Zergs.
Once you're a master zerg, people more or less assume that you have strong fundamentals and are worthy of respect. When they see a master terran, they'll first assume you're a cheesing POS, then might think that you know many two base all-ins, and eventually, after you've won a couple tournaments in long macro games, they might consider you a decent player.
The only really bad part of builds like this has nothing to do with ladder ranking. It's simply that it is a waste of time for both players, and makes the game much less enjoyable.
On May 22 2011 00:03 Innovation wrote: What is annoying (but I guess it's also a blessing depending how you look at it) is that terran and protoss have these cheeses that are so amazingly strong and easy to execute and zerg are stuck trying to hang on playing standard games. I'm not saying IMBA i'm saying that zerg players when they win against terran or protoss usually do so by strong fundamental play and struggle their way with blood, sweat, devotion, and tears into masters. While we cry about #1 rated master or grandmasters that have no idea how to play past 10-12 minutes in a game. Or the poor high level diamond zergs that probably deserve masters but just can't quite get promoted even though they're fundamentaly better then 50% of masters. So that's the downside....but here's the good side....if zergs keep practicing and don't let themselves get depressed and keep practicing then they can have the satisfaction that when they get to masters or GM that they really, REALLY deserve it.
As if I, a nooby Terran dont get banelingbusted every 2nd TvZ (which is sadly true, every 2nd game Im getting banelingusted and , what i can say is cheesing or some kind of all-in, from a zerg) Terran and Protoss always cheese their way to higher leagues, and only Zerg do it with skill and martyrlike practice... :/
Protoss has no strong cheese post-1.3.3 that would allow a bad P to get to a high league on that strat alone; I challenge you to name one.
On May 22 2011 03:07 Vapaach wrote: I just dealt with someone who did this with ease. The key is to wall off. If you don't, it is almost impossible to hold. Just wall off, no matter whether your units are stuck on the inside or outside, just do it. This should give you enough time to kill most of his scvs and to get out 3+ stalkers to deal with the marines. If you wall off with sturdy building such as gateways, it will take so much time to destroy them that you should be able to suffer no casualties whatsoever.
On a map like Crevasse you're probably doomed, though, if this is the optimal response, correct?
But I have been trying to defend this as a zerg its very hard. A blind spine might perhaps be the awnser but as of now working on provideing some replays of my own on how to stop soundly but so far I dont have anything.
I just faced this strat for the first time on metalopolis, close spawn... Needless to say I lost and had no idea how to counter it. My micro still managed to get him to 2 marines but then I had nothing left. I'll surely look into your replays to see how to stop it
EPT
