On May 21 2011 08:03 noobinator wrote: You beat mondragon with this bo? Does that mean you could get into TSL4 just by using this bo?
I can't believe something like this would actually be possible just by cheesing... Though you wouldn't make it much farther once you get to the 5 game series or once ppl start looking at your games to figure out what you do.
EDIT: Happy birthday! :D
^^
Laddering and playing in tournaments are completely different things. Pros don't take ladder games very seriously therefor cheese has a higher probability of success because they don't care about ladder points.. I played LiquidRet while he was offracing terran the other day ^^
Hehe, this wasnt Ret. It was ClouD playing on Rets account. It was streamed by the German streamer Dennis 'TaKe' Gehlen from his living room, they stayed there for a few days (ClouD for 2 weeks). Somebody whispered to Cloud ingame "if the bottom of the ramp is walled, he'll do a 3 rax allin.", appearently he ignored the tip :D
On May 21 2011 19:26 Zoia wrote: Video I made showing some people how to do this build. Being a mid - high level masters terran I agree that this build is fucking insane. Enjoy
Nice video ! Your execution of it isn't really perfect though, maybe you could have casted one of my replays against the pros (ToD or Mondragon for example). If anyone ever casts one of the games I played i'll be glad to add it to the OP btw
Also, I'm not a plat level protoss !
Yeah I'll commentate one of your games and I also changed the title of the video and added an annotation explaining that you are plat skill level terran and mid masters toss
On May 21 2011 08:03 noobinator wrote: You beat mondragon with this bo? Does that mean you could get into TSL4 just by using this bo?
I can't believe something like this would actually be possible just by cheesing... Though you wouldn't make it much farther once you get to the 5 game series or once ppl start looking at your games to figure out what you do.
EDIT: Happy birthday! :D
^^
Laddering and playing in tournaments are completely different things. Pros don't take ladder games very seriously therefor cheese has a higher probability of success because they don't care about ladder points.. I played LiquidRet while he was offracing terran the other day ^^
Hehe, this wasnt Ret. It was ClouD playing on Rets account. It was streamed by the German streamer Dennis 'TaKe' Gehlen from his living room, they stayed there for a few days (ClouD for 2 weeks). Somebody whispered to Cloud ingame "if the bottom of the ramp is walled, he'll do a 3 rax allin.", appearently he ignored the tip :D
I beat ClouD ? Awesome. I asked him if he was offracing and he said yes though ! Are there Vods of this I can find ?
On May 21 2011 09:19 Mithriel wrote: I'm gonna implement walling in downstairs into my game now. Let people guess if I might cheese. Not that I would cheese I love playing long games
Unless you're doing 1-rax FE with A+ bunker placement and map awareness, you're going to lose that depot by 5-6 minutes from any poking.
On May 21 2011 20:57 Mactator wrote: I don't understand how this thread can be 31 pages long! You are discussing a very simple allin build that has absolutely no potential and is easy to counter if you know it's coming. A 6 pool can be just as strong but seriously a zerg who only 6 pools is a joke. Why are you rushing for masters if you aren't good enough? I don't get it.
On May 21 2011 20:57 Mactator wrote: I don't understand how this thread can be 31 pages long! You are discussing a very simple allin build that has absolutely no potential and is easy to counter if you know it's coming. A 6 pool can be just as strong but seriously a zerg who only 6 pools is a joke. Why are you rushing for masters if you aren't good enough? I don't get it.
Because it ISN'T easy to counter at all, I've known it was coming a few times and still it has been incredibly close
My first comment on this matter was cheesing to counter a cheese. Now that I think of it, it's true that sentries could stop it with well placed FFs. Actually, instead of trapping all SCVs and marines outside, you should trap some SCVs inside the FF, and kill them all...then the second FF traps the rest of the SCVs, then kill all marines after the FFs time down. By the time he hits with the build, I assume you have already chronoed out two sentries and one zealot. It's actually more than enough to kill all 6 SCVs trapped inside your FF. Maybe that was your mistake, eh Geiko? I wasn't able to download your replays since my PC just bugged down.... T.T
On May 17 2011 05:53 Darpa wrote: So i did this about 45 times today, and here are some observations.
1. it is ridiculously strong against toss. Like 95% win ratio, unless they immediatly put cannons down.
2. Really good against terran if clear watch towers so they dont bunker while your crossing the map i would say 80% win ratio
3. Mediocre against zerg. 50% i think. Basically a coin flip, zergs are too used to dealing with cheese like this, i would say 6/10 times they just plant a couple spines when they see the bottom of the ramp walled. This is enough to push it back. Most zergs will have a queen plus 6+ lings when it hits and 2 spines. I have effectively dealt with this by pushing into the main and hopefully he transfers his drones sloppily and I can kill a bunch. Either way, i find this way less effective against them, than any of the other races.
4. A good cheese, can take games off just about anyone of any skill. Great for a tournmanet series or games. Ive been looking for an easy to do cheese that i can rely on to steal a game now and again, this is definitly it.
Those toss players don't know about this build, or the players who won against you (toss players) just countered it since they play safe builds.
On May 21 2011 20:57 Mactator wrote: I don't understand how this thread can be 31 pages long! You are discussing a very simple allin build that has absolutely no potential and is easy to counter if you know it's coming. A 6 pool can be just as strong but seriously a zerg who only 6 pools is a joke. Why are you rushing for masters if you aren't good enough? I don't get it.
Because it ISN'T easy to counter at all, I've known it was coming a few times and still it has been incredibly close
Actually that's super easy to counter for every race
It may be a co-incidence but I've faced this build multiple times on ladder now and its boring to play against I always open by going 2 gate stalker so its super easy to hold this off with 3-5 stalkers depending on rush distance.
On May 21 2011 22:00 Zedex wrote: It may be a co-incidence but I've faced this build multiple times on ladder now and its boring to play against I always open by going 2 gate stalker so its super easy to hold this off with 3-5 stalkers depending on rush distance.
That is what i also thought of doing when i was ask how to counter this thing by a friend.
If you just a move all your probes and 5 stalkers into this push the terran obviously will kill you but kite his army all the way from his base to your firth with 1 stalker and later with 3 then you will win. If he does the down ramp wallof and it is a 1 rax expand, then he will have some problem to hold against a 2 gate stalker poke. on shaquras then he probably can hold it easy and be ahead.
On May 21 2011 08:03 noobinator wrote: You beat mondragon with this bo? Does that mean you could get into TSL4 just by using this bo?
I can't believe something like this would actually be possible just by cheesing... Though you wouldn't make it much farther once you get to the 5 game series or once ppl start looking at your games to figure out what you do.
EDIT: Happy birthday! :D
^^
Laddering and playing in tournaments are completely different things. Pros don't take ladder games very seriously therefor cheese has a higher probability of success because they don't care about ladder points.. I played LiquidRet while he was offracing terran the other day ^^
Hehe, this wasnt Ret. It was ClouD playing on Rets account. It was streamed by the German streamer Dennis 'TaKe' Gehlen from his living room, they stayed there for a few days (ClouD for 2 weeks). Somebody whispered to Cloud ingame "if the bottom of the ramp is walled, he'll do a 3 rax allin.", appearently he ignored the tip :D
I beat ClouD ? Awesome. I asked him if he was offracing and he said yes though ! Are there Vods of this I can find ?
Yeah, you actually beat cloud. I dont know if there will be VODs up, but i don't think so. They were just streaming for fun or is own3d one of those streaming services that puts everything online as a vod?
On May 21 2011 22:39 Defiled wrote: Until infestors are nerfed, this is my build against z.
Infestors already got a nerf - if you're honestly going to be doing this against every Zerg, go ahead - you'll win a lot of games. You won't get any better though - in masters I've faced this a number of times as Zerg and haven't lost yet (ZvT is an average matchup for me - I typically have issues with standard marine/tank but not many other terran builds).
Maybe you would be better spent actually practicing things like 2rax bunker rush, 2rax expand, standard gas play, with multiple transitions (hellion harass, fast marine/tank, etc.) - that way you'll get better when you play zerg
What is annoying (but I guess it's also a blessing depending how you look at it) is that terran and protoss have these cheeses that are so amazingly strong and easy to execute and zerg are stuck trying to hang on playing standard games. I'm not saying IMBA i'm saying that zerg players when they win against terran or protoss usually do so by strong fundamental play and struggle their way with blood, sweat, devotion, and tears into masters. While we cry about #1 rated master or grandmasters that have no idea how to play past 10-12 minutes in a game. Or the poor high level diamond zergs that probably deserve masters but just can't quite get promoted even though they're fundamentaly better then 50% of masters. So that's the downside....but here's the good side....if zergs keep practicing and don't let themselves get depressed and keep practicing then they can have the satisfaction that when they get to masters or GM that they really, REALLY deserve it.
On May 22 2011 00:03 Innovation wrote: What is annoying (but I guess it's also a blessing depending how you look at it) is that terran and protoss have these cheeses that are so amazingly strong and easy to execute and zerg are stuck trying to hang on playing standard games. I'm not saying IMBA i'm saying that zerg players when they win against terran or protoss usually do so by strong fundamental play and struggle their way with blood, sweat, devotion, and tears into masters. While we cry about #1 rated master or grandmasters that have no idea how to play past 10-12 minutes in a game. Or the poor high level diamond zergs that probably deserve masters but just can't quite get promoted even though they're fundamentaly better then 50% of masters. So that's the downside....but here's the good side....if zergs keep practicing and don't let themselves get depressed and keep practicing then they can have the satisfaction that when they get to masters or GM that they really, REALLY deserve it.
this isn't really accurate. there are plenty of low saturation/2 base attack timings that zergs can do which would qualify as cheese/all in, even though they're on two bases. Because of the fact that they're on two bases, they come slightly later, but are also harder to scout and can be much more effective.
On May 22 2011 00:03 Innovation wrote:I'm not saying IMBA
THIS is what really frustrates me. I can cope with whining, I can cope with immaturity. What I can't cope with is people knowing that immature whining is bad, doing it anyway and trying to disguise it as something else. Well played, moron. You are saying Zerg is harder than the other races: "blood, sweat, tears" etc, stop pretending you aren't.
I think Terrans have to wall off at the bottom of their ramp more. It plays real mindgames, since the only obvious indicator for this build is the wall-off at the bottom of the ramp. If you can trick the opponent, similar to a fake FE-> 4gate in PvZ but the opposite in trickery, you can easily get ahead with a standard build.
I am a silver league Terran and have encountered this now 3 times in 3 days...... and held it twice. the first time i did not wallin because iw as to lazy, the second time i already read it here and saw it was coming and the third i just saw him coming and build 1 bunker.... Since the thread started the usage of it is so frequent in the lower leagues, its crazy. I wall-in at the bottom in every of myTvZ (2rax) and then I see a Zerg in panic building 5 spinecrawlers.
Seriously, I understand if someone uses it in TvZ or TvP, but TvT? 1 bunker is enough, they will never get through.
EPT
