EPT[D]PvZ Archon build - Page 6
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AlphaNoodle
United States21 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On May 15 2011 12:55 AlphaNoodle wrote: Quick question, or comment rather. This build seems to be susceptible to the map and zerg early pressure. In other words if the map has a hard to defend natural, wouldn't it be better to 3 gate expand assuming you scout some early pressure? I guess my main question is, is the build based on the speed of getting the army with upgrades up or is it more based on raw strength no matter what part of the game? I don't think it's a good idea to do this build on maps where you can't sim city your natural. Certainly not on Delta Quadrant or Slag Pits! Updated with replay showing psi storm. | ||
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Kaiz
United States17 Posts
Not once the entire game did he have any base fully saturated (example: he had about 10 Drones mining at his main for ~4 minutes starting at around 8:50). The Zerg player kept his minerals low but had a major surplus of gas throughout the entire game (floating ~1500 gas at the time of the first engagement). Beyond his initial two overlord sacs for scouting, he basically saw nothing, including your unit comp, until you moved to take your 3rd. For the first engagement he had way too many Hydras and not nearly enough of anything to tank for them so you easily rolled over him, and it was gg from there as he had no minerals to remake much of anything. The game could have quite possibly looked very different if he had balanced his economy better, attempted to get Infestors before his army was in tatters (started Infestation Pit after the engagement had begun), and/or didn't essentially make pure Hydras then decide to make Roaches after you move to take your 3rd. Edit: Not trying to detract from your playing, it's just that basically any standard unit comp past T1 would have rolled over this Zerg. | ||
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Evantas
Singapore61 Posts
They are a little weaker than colossi vs bio, but still seems to work pretty well. Banshees have to cluster to be cost effective vs stalkers, a few archons will stop that cold.They ignore PDD too. | ||
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
The build goes for lots of gateways, a twilight council, and a templar archives very quickly. If you spot mutas, it's no problem to research blink and storm very easily - and Archons are fantastic against mutas and lings. If there are a lot of roaches, you begin making stalkers and throw down a robo - switching into stalker+immortal+high templar without much difficulty. And the zealot+archon push is still strong enough that Zerg has to respect it even with pure roach. Of course, if he goes for hydras or a lot of lings, you'll outright kill him. Problems, as I see it, come down to timings of all these transitions, and taking a 3rd safely. And, of course, there's no way to pressure Zergs, allowing them to drone as much as they like. So that's something to watch out for. Still I'm loving it and I'll keep messing with it. | ||
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Mojar
Australia185 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
 Though playing against a Zerg on Tal'Darin has made me not want to play it on big maps. He saw that I had a ton of Zealots so just switched to Muta. I wasn't exactly sure what to do, so I just attacked him. As I ran up to his base and saw his drones scatter everywhere, it sank in pretty fast that he was going for an all-out base trade, I already invested too much into Zealot/Archon to ever be able to win, everytime I split them up a few muta would just start picking away on the Zealots who weren't supported by Archons or whatever few Stalkers I managed to get out. Not sure what to do in that situation. Maybe I just need to attack earlier If I see a spire building | ||
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BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
The big problem with this composition is if the zerg player can get to brood lords. Archons are not really good enough vs brood lords. But you should have plenty of time to kill the zerg before then, or scout it with lots of time to react. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
On May 15 2011 14:22 Dommk wrote: Been trying this, pretty fun Though playing against a Zerg on Tal'Darin has made me not want to play it on big maps. He saw that I had a ton of Zealots so just switched to Muta. I wasn't exactly sure what to do, so I just attacked him. As I ran up to his base and saw his drones scatter everywhere, it sank in pretty fast that he was going for an all-out base trade, I already invested too much into Zealot/Archon to ever be able to win, everytime I split them up a few muta would just start picking away on the Zealots who weren't supported by Archons or whatever few Stalkers I managed to get out. Not sure what to do in that situation. Maybe I just need to attack earlier If I see a spire building When I try this out and spot mutas, and it's not a rush or it's just too late for me to 6-gate, I instantly research storm and blink and begin making nothing but stalkers and high templar. The archons you already have are still effective too. Then I just plop down a billion cannons and go attack. It's worked out so far. | ||
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Opponent
Canada32 Posts
http://starcraft.org/replays/sc2/melee/1066 800 master toss player btw | ||
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G3CKO
Canada1430 Posts
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ETisME
12276 Posts
On May 15 2011 05:08 MrBitter wrote: My experience trying to go muta vs this style hasn't been too promising. You have to consider a couple of things. 1.) Protoss is getting fast upgrades. 2.) Protoss is rushing templar, giving him access to both blink and storm. 3.) Protoss is throwing down looots of gates very early on. 4.) Protoss wanting to go archon/zealot does not lock him in to archon/zealot. Once he realizes "oh, Zerg's going muta", Toss will get blink, add storm, and make tons of very well upgraded stalkers, at which point he should lol all over your muta ball. not sure about this. rushing upgrades means a lesser templar and stalker counts and templar is good against mutas only when they have their upgrades. the time to get them are much longer than massing up mutas. The constant harass will pretty much force the protoss to play even more defensively, at which time, zerg can get the expansions and have a better map control your point 4) is a very flawed argument. It is also possible for me to argue for switching to infestors (that would give lair tech later on) and also mass roache to tank, which using the remaining mutas for harrassing/reinforce | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
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dream-_-
United States1857 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On May 15 2011 17:16 dream-_- wrote: prolly been answered already, but wasnt it fisheye[pg] vs someone... forget the zerg think he was korean Isn't the map Arcadia? I think that was well after Fisheye's time. | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On May 15 2011 17:27 Drowsy wrote: One of the biggest weaknesses of the forge first expo is that you're vulnerable to nydus and roach aggression and you "have" to get a voidray to fight that stuff off. Now I'm wondering just how fast you can get a dark shrine out.. You can hold with cannons/gateway units. | ||
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cubezi
Germany10 Posts
i tried mass archons aswell but your gidelines help just so much and make this build be even more kickass the only thing im worried about right now are mas, mass roaches but i think i'll just have to delay my push to have a bit more reinforcements | ||
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