EPT[G] [D] Zerg Mineral Saturation - Page 5
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Silentenigma
Turkey2037 Posts
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
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Filosoraptor
United States21 Posts
Your voice is like a warm glass of milk before bed. I don't even play zerg but I still watch your stream as often as I can. I just can't get enough of that ear-candy! You should record some of these guides so I can saturate my ears with that angelic manner voice of yours. no homo <333 | ||
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Soliduok
Canada222 Posts
Saturation has certainly been a problem of mine since playing SC2. In the beginning I learned I needed more drones to win. After winning many games with many drones, I learned of such a thing as overdroning. From losing to overdroning I have learned of all-ining. From all-ining has come more losing and now I am trying to learn proper play. Some maps I find myself being stuck on 2 bases simply because I don't even want to make the units to take down rocks, or, the third is too far away and therefor, too difficult to defend. I think on most maps in most cases Zergs are very comfortable taking their natural and it feels "right". But I notice in myself at least, that when it comes time to take a third I feel "ugh, hmm". Do you have any suggestions for taking a third? Is it putting pressure on your opponent first? Is it making some defensive units prior to taking? Or is it just too situational to really say specifically? | ||
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iruehl
United States31 Posts
 This could have help me a lot when i was zerg. | ||
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jazzbassmatt
United States566 Posts
at what times is it best to only saturate the gas at your 3rd? You talked about gas timings as far as scouting in terran/protoss, but didn't really mention the value of gas as a zerg player. How highly do you tend to favor gas? At what times is it best to take your geysers at your natural? At what times is it best to only saturate the geysers at your third base, and not the minerals? What about late game? What about timings when holding off early aggression? What about when facing toss who goes for FFE? I feel like I have general ideas of when to take and saturate my geysers, but it doesn't always end up working out, and I'm really interested in your thought process behind your timings. Thanks so much! jazzbassmatt | ||
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socommaster123
United States578 Posts
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L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
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DrDoom
United States107 Posts
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SolidusR
United States217 Posts
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cosimorondo
United States78 Posts
Here are a couple questions I hope Sheth can address when he expands this guide: Sheth, do you have any thoughts on saturation for Zerg two base timings, or do you feel that those builds are too non-standard to warrant discussion in this thread? At times I feel as though the rush to outproduce in terms of economy chains us as Zerg to our immobile bases in order to defend, taking away one of our unit strengths which is mobility. Also, is there a point where you draw a line, in trying to have a better economy than Terran or Protoss, if they are playing unusually greedy? Or do you attempt to outpace them to infinity? (and beyond) | ||
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johanngrunt
Hong Kong1555 Posts
Do you sac an ovie every few minutes to check? | ||
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COLT217
Germany70 Posts
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Everhate
United States640 Posts
I would note, as several have used this to ask questions about base timings, that there are times you may want to take bases even if you can't or won't be able to saturate the minerals, just to get the additional gas, with only a minor mineral income. That approach can be beneficial at times, though normally doesn't occur until the 5-base mark or so (from my observation/experience). | ||
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Arn
Sweden118 Posts
On May 05 2011 07:46 michaelhasanalias wrote: Need to stop you right there. We don't play this game in a vacuum, and there's a hefty dropoff between workers 17-20 and workers 21-24. Far patch 3rds mine roughly double would close patch 3rds mine. 45/minute is not an approximation, but the maximum that close patch workers can mine. Far patch workers mine at 39, and this averages (on most maps) to about 42-43. Simple arithmetic shows that your mining numbers are very off-base, as maximum 1-base saturation is 816 (102 per patch). Your maximum saturation would give: 112.5 per patch and 900 minerals/minute. Thanks for the corrections, I just have to defend my "given equal mineral distance" statement - I realize that different patches generate different income, and didn't have the exact numbers, however I do have some %ages. Basically there seem to be three types of patches, close/mid/far, which mine at 100%/88%/84% (img) in relation to eachothers. The reason I assumed equal distance is because it was not the point - it will equal out. However, saying that each worker 16-24 adds exactly 50% efficiency is correct, the real numbers are higher for the first few workers and lower for the last - the first workers will go to far-patches without glitching. But okay, if I am gonna do theorycrafting I'll do it more thoroughly next time, else it might be of too little real value. | ||
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joeyBanana
Germany77 Posts
really nice guide, that you've written there. Even for someone whos native language is not english, this concept is understandable. Just one question: At which kind of skill-level do you aim this thoughts ? Do you think it is an good idea, from Bronze to Grandmaster, to start using and applying your idea about saturation and worker-counting, or is it more kind of a "high-level-thing" ? In other words: Should a Plat-Player concentrate his APM on "Injections, Producing and Overlords" ? Or should he start applying your ideas on his lower level, to get it down for higher leagues ? Btw: The thing with the sentries -> Just great! Have to agree with the guy, who said that this was easily the best piece of advise against toss in this forum. greetings and <3<3<3 from germany  | ||
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Sairon
47 Posts
On May 05 2011 08:29 AzureD wrote: I have a bit of a problem with the tiers on saturation. I find that 12 - 16 is a way bigger difference than 16 - 20. Difference between 20 - 24 is really small. Once you get past 16 on minerals it just gets less and less effective. Like past 16 on minerals per base each extra worker is more like 90% a worker and then 80% and then 65% as efficient all the way up to 24 where each extra is 0% as efficient. That is why 2 base with 12 workers each is way better than 1 base with 24. The difference is several tiers bigger than previous tiers. I don't even include 16 per 2 base because that is even bigger than 12 per 2 base. As for example having 24 one one base and 12 on another is actually not as good as having 16 per base even though you have less workers. This is almost certainly down to the number of close vs far away patches. The ideal amount of works for minerals is most likely ( far patches * 3 ) + ( close patches * 2 ). It would be interesting to know exactly how much difference there is between 2 vs 3 on a close patch. Of course this varies a bit as the distance isn't constant even between 2 separate close patches, same goes for far. | ||
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szil4rd
Germany11 Posts
This is so clever. Why the hell didnt i have already thought of this. Thanks Sheth <3 | ||
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yann
119 Posts
On May 05 2011 08:09 [Atomic]Peace wrote: One thing I love about Sheth above all else is that he is one of the only top players making huge contributions to our written understanding of Starcraft. The general public has a much improved ability to understand Zerg thanks to his extensive posts on the Strategy forum and his commentary + replay packs. Thanks a lot Sheth! Exactly! Your contributions are awsome!!!! All the streaming, reppacks and your posts help so MUCH! Sheth fighting! | ||
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BleaK_
Norway593 Posts
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