^^ great idea with the tables, though the only danger is that they only apply in certain situations (no gold taken, didn't just wipe out their army, etc)

Crackensan

United States479 Posts

May 04 2011 18:19 GMT

#42

I think that's why Sheth is only writting a guide line and principles to try to follow, not hard fast rules.

Starcraft is a very complex system, with too many variables to have hard, fast, set rules.

nanoscorp

United States1237 Posts

May 04 2011 18:23 GMT

#43

I don't know if it's even worth mentioning, but sometimes players get into sub-optimal saturation that can be fixed with a simple worker transfer. 24 in the main, 4 in the natural, for example? If your natural is secure, a big transfer will increase mineral income pretty quickly. When T gets a gold base up they usually throw down a bunch of MULEs asap, but not every zerg I've seen does a transfer when a hatch on a gold is finishing. Recognizing how to get the most out of existing drones seems like an important part of playing the saturation game well. Thanks again!

I see your response regarding transfers and local rallies, that makes sense for keeping a good balance. Do you ever run into trouble with mixed production where one base ends up oversaturated relative to the rest?

archonOOid

1983 Posts

May 04 2011 18:29 GMT

#44

Great post sheth and it's good that you are active among us lower tier players!
An economic or production question, should each base have a corresponding queen? Many queens could cap the army supply, is that a problem?

Liquid`Sheth

United States2095 Posts

May 04 2011 18:43 GMT

#45

Cookie -- Yep thats why I'm just giving general rules.

Nano -- Yep happens once in a while, thats why you need to be constantly checking how many drones you have in each mineral area. Actually LOOK at the workers, don't look through them. Count them and think about it. I should probably add something like that to the guide.

Archon -- I usually stop at like 5 queens, anything more is like you said a army supply problem.

<3

archonOOid

1983 Posts

May 04 2011 18:49 GMT

#46

If zerg should "over expand" or at least have so many bases that the worker count at a specific base is low, does that correspond to a specific composition or play style? Is muta/ling or bane/ling/infest or any other composition favourable? The ultra or broodlords/mass queen build might be less favourable?

Also with many bases I suppose you aren't building any macro hatches?

Since you are answering my posts, how did you feel when you were nr1 in ladder in the world? It was a great achievement!

CookieMaker

Canada880 Posts

May 04 2011 19:00 GMT

#47

On May 05 2011 03:49 archonOOid wrote:
If zerg should "over expand" or at least have so many bases that the worker count at a specific base is low, does that correspond to a specific composition or play style? Is muta/ling or bane/ling/infest or any other composition favourable? The ultra or broodlords/mass queen build might be less favourable?

It would only correspond to specific playstyle in the early-mid game, whereas any expansions past the 3rd are usually just taken as soon as "safely" (and i use that very loosely) possible.

The only example I can think of where extra bases are playstyle dependant is when a player is going heavy ling/bane in the early game and an objective is to get a really fast 3rd up with the excess minerals they will have. The other compositions you mentioned have nothing to do with base count or "over expanding", though it is certainly easier to defend 8 bases on Tal'Darim with a fast army than it is with broodlords. Composition is only dependent on your income, not base count (beyond 3base)

AssuredVacancy

United States1167 Posts

May 04 2011 19:14 GMT

#48

Wow Sheth awesome post!

I have a couple questions after watching almost all 200something of your replays.

In zvt I know you like to open roach, but some games I see that you will commit to an early roach timing off of 2 bases that most of the tme catches the terran offguard and win you the game or greatly cripple the terran. I'd like to know what indicates that you should go for that timing, as in, what does the terran do that cues that an early roach attack will be successful?

Secondly, I notice that in a lot of your games you stop at 84 drones, how do you get your drone count this accurately? Do you just select all your drones at each expansions and count them?

mooose

Japan200 Posts

May 04 2011 19:18 GMT

#49

Awesome post thanks! I've always had a vague idea in my head of the kind of range of drones/bases I want to be ahead of my opponent without over-droning/expanding but I've never really tried quantifying it like this. I'll have to start getting used to estimating my worker numbers at each base better or at least start boxing them to check roughly how many there are.

Edit: Also I already check for gas timings and which units a protoss makes as hints at whether they will push me or just expand, but I've never considered checking the sentry's energy level. That's a great idea so thanks for that too, I think it will help me not die to some of the stranger 1 base protoss pushes.

MegaDancer

United States25 Posts

May 04 2011 19:24 GMT

#50

Sheth you are incredible! I've been looking for something like this forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TheSurgeonTV

United States131 Posts

May 04 2011 19:46 GMT

#51

Nice Sheth, I will be looking for this type of game sense during your NASL and other tournament appearances! This guide really made be a better player/fan of starcraft.