EPTWith that done, I'd like to get on with describing the games and opening up the discussion. I was hoping someone else would get this started, since it's my first time starting a topic, but I'm running out of patience waiting for it
edit2: Note that I never meant to imply that this build is the future of the matchup - I was only using the game as a basis for discussing the future of the matchup. I would change the topic if I could, since it seems to be pissing people off. But I can't. Deal with it.
Game 1
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Cross positions. Alicia scouts counterclockwise on pylon, finds Losira going pool/gas first, proceeds to drop Core. Losira is able to drop his hatch without being blocked. Losira gets 4 lings out and the probe retreats around 3:45 as usual. Alicia adds two gates and intends to do a standard sentry expand. Losira drones hard and adds metabolic boost (relatively late, only one drone on gas, doesn't start until 5:00), as well as dropping a roach warren at 5:40. Double queens.
Now things get interesting. After getting to 34 drones he starts producing roaches and lings exclusively and rallying them over to the Protoss base. The nexus is dropped at a standard timing, hallucination is being researched, forge has been added on and a cannon is warping in, and Alicia starts moving out with 7 sentries and 2 zealots to apply some pressure. He gets caught by some of the early lings, has to use some forcefields to be able to retreat to his natural. Adds 3 stalkers. Losira rallies only lings at this point.
Some of the best forcefields I've ever seen save Alicia from losing the game straight up at this point. He loses several probes to killing the last of the roaches. At the aftermath of this, Losira has somehow managed to drop his third as well as switched over to drones instead of lings as soon as he saw his roaches fall. He still has about 25 lings on the field, which gives him map control over the severely harried force of Alicia. He's up in supply 72 vs 55, and up in workers roughly (hard to tell with a VOD) 50 vs 33.
Losira adds another queen, adds an evo chamber and gets his Lair tech. Alicia gets a robo. Losira keeps droning hard and begins +1 ranged as well as creep spreading. Burrow and overlord speed is researched shortly after Lair finishes, and Losira adds an Overseer. A 4th gate is added by Alicia, as well as a Twilight Council and +1 attack.
The first observer is built by Alicia and he also hallucinates a Void Ray instead of a Phoenix and shows it to an Overlord. Losira adds a sporecrawler and drops a Hydra den, as well as begins researching drops. Immortal comes out for Alicia. Hydras being hatched for Losira.
Alicia continues production of Immortals and gets his third. Losira keeps making drones and hydras and spreading that creep. Losira now has 5 queens on the field, 2 completely devoted to laying creep tumors. It's now 109 vs 88 supply and 77 drones vs 46 probes.
Alicia begins researching blink and adds a robo bay and 3 more gates, and moves out after scouting Losira with a hallu-phoenix. Losira keeps pumping out hydras, and starts adding in roaches. Alicia walks around killing the occasional ling scout, Losira gets started on +1 melee and keeps producing roaches and lings, as well as drops another hatch (his 4th base) in the "natural" spot. Alicia pokes at it and meets a fearsome army (now 150 vs 94 supply).
Alicia executes flawless forcefields and shuts away the entire roach/hydra army from his lings. He begins retreating after killing the lings. Yet another set of flawless forcefields traps a few of the roaches and denies all the hydras, but his army gets trapped on Losira's part of the map. Losira splits his roach/hydra army in half and flanks from three sides with ling reinforcements making up the third side. Excellent forcefields denies one half of the roach/hydra army, but the 2/3rds that are not forcefielded are enough to defeat Alicia's forces.
168 vs 79 supply at the end of that. During the fight, a baneling nest, a second evo chamber and a spire has been dropped for Losira, and the first Colossus has come out for Alicia. +1 carapace gets started. Losira attacks the third through the backdoor with speedlings while he gets his main army (roach/hydra) in position in the natural. Losira focusfires the nexus at the natural and retreats with his hydras.
Losira begins researching baneling speed and Alicia begins researching thermal lances. Losira makes a bunch of banelings and a few corruptors and roaches, while Alicia keeps adding Colossi. Losira loads up 5 overlords with banelings, sends one to drop at the mineral line of the third base. Some great micro from Alicia at this last fight, but Losira's army is simply too big. GG.
Now things get interesting. After getting to 34 drones he starts producing roaches and lings exclusively and rallying them over to the Protoss base. The nexus is dropped at a standard timing, hallucination is being researched, forge has been added on and a cannon is warping in, and Alicia starts moving out with 7 sentries and 2 zealots to apply some pressure. He gets caught by some of the early lings, has to use some forcefields to be able to retreat to his natural. Adds 3 stalkers. Losira rallies only lings at this point.
Some of the best forcefields I've ever seen save Alicia from losing the game straight up at this point. He loses several probes to killing the last of the roaches. At the aftermath of this, Losira has somehow managed to drop his third as well as switched over to drones instead of lings as soon as he saw his roaches fall. He still has about 25 lings on the field, which gives him map control over the severely harried force of Alicia. He's up in supply 72 vs 55, and up in workers roughly (hard to tell with a VOD) 50 vs 33.
Losira adds another queen, adds an evo chamber and gets his Lair tech. Alicia gets a robo. Losira keeps droning hard and begins +1 ranged as well as creep spreading. Burrow and overlord speed is researched shortly after Lair finishes, and Losira adds an Overseer. A 4th gate is added by Alicia, as well as a Twilight Council and +1 attack.
The first observer is built by Alicia and he also hallucinates a Void Ray instead of a Phoenix and shows it to an Overlord. Losira adds a sporecrawler and drops a Hydra den, as well as begins researching drops. Immortal comes out for Alicia. Hydras being hatched for Losira.
Alicia continues production of Immortals and gets his third. Losira keeps making drones and hydras and spreading that creep. Losira now has 5 queens on the field, 2 completely devoted to laying creep tumors. It's now 109 vs 88 supply and 77 drones vs 46 probes.
Alicia begins researching blink and adds a robo bay and 3 more gates, and moves out after scouting Losira with a hallu-phoenix. Losira keeps pumping out hydras, and starts adding in roaches. Alicia walks around killing the occasional ling scout, Losira gets started on +1 melee and keeps producing roaches and lings, as well as drops another hatch (his 4th base) in the "natural" spot. Alicia pokes at it and meets a fearsome army (now 150 vs 94 supply).
Alicia executes flawless forcefields and shuts away the entire roach/hydra army from his lings. He begins retreating after killing the lings. Yet another set of flawless forcefields traps a few of the roaches and denies all the hydras, but his army gets trapped on Losira's part of the map. Losira splits his roach/hydra army in half and flanks from three sides with ling reinforcements making up the third side. Excellent forcefields denies one half of the roach/hydra army, but the 2/3rds that are not forcefielded are enough to defeat Alicia's forces.
168 vs 79 supply at the end of that. During the fight, a baneling nest, a second evo chamber and a spire has been dropped for Losira, and the first Colossus has come out for Alicia. +1 carapace gets started. Losira attacks the third through the backdoor with speedlings while he gets his main army (roach/hydra) in position in the natural. Losira focusfires the nexus at the natural and retreats with his hydras.
Losira begins researching baneling speed and Alicia begins researching thermal lances. Losira makes a bunch of banelings and a few corruptors and roaches, while Alicia keeps adding Colossi. Losira loads up 5 overlords with banelings, sends one to drop at the mineral line of the third base. Some great micro from Alicia at this last fight, but Losira's army is simply too big. GG.
Game 2
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Cross positions. Alicia scouts on pylon and finds Losira before he has built anything. Losira pulls out a drone to get his natural, but drops the gas and pool as soon as the probe leaves. Alicia drops a pylon to block the hatch but cancels it, and Losira drops the hatch shortly thereafter. Alicia once again does the standard gate/core opening off 2gas.
Losira makes 4 lings like last time, doesn't start his metabolic boost until 4:15 (1 drone on gas) and drops his roach warren at 5:40. On the other side of the map, we see the pattern repeating here; Alicia gets his 3 gates, gets a lot of sentries out, and takes his natural. After that he drops a stargate followed by a forge. Losira drops an evo chamber.
At 6:40 Losira begins his pressure and makes 8 roaches just like last time, followed by speedlings. Alicia supplyblocks himself and delays the first voidray slightly. 33 drones vs 28 probes. A cannon is warped in at the natural. Alicia makes a phoenix. Speedlings charge into the mineral lines, the roaches charge into the front. Excellent forcefields at the start, but eventually he misses one and the lings get through and rip the sentries to shreds.
The voidray is unable to do significant damage to the roaches, there aren't enough stalkers, and Losira overwhelms Alicia. GG.
Losira makes 4 lings like last time, doesn't start his metabolic boost until 4:15 (1 drone on gas) and drops his roach warren at 5:40. On the other side of the map, we see the pattern repeating here; Alicia gets his 3 gates, gets a lot of sentries out, and takes his natural. After that he drops a stargate followed by a forge. Losira drops an evo chamber.
At 6:40 Losira begins his pressure and makes 8 roaches just like last time, followed by speedlings. Alicia supplyblocks himself and delays the first voidray slightly. 33 drones vs 28 probes. A cannon is warped in at the natural. Alicia makes a phoenix. Speedlings charge into the mineral lines, the roaches charge into the front. Excellent forcefields at the start, but eventually he misses one and the lings get through and rip the sentries to shreds.
The voidray is unable to do significant damage to the roaches, there aren't enough stalkers, and Losira overwhelms Alicia. GG.
Game 3
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Some analysis
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Losira is showcasing what to me looks like an amazing opening against Protoss. I kept thinking, how do you stop this without crippling yourself? We already see that Losira is ahead in economy - he has his natural up and running with more drones than Alicia has probes, and Alicia can't, imho, take that expansion faster than he is and be safe against what might be coming out of Losira.
The biggest problem here is the gaping hole of information from 3:50, when the first lings come out and chase away the scouting probe, until 7:00-7:30 or so when the first hallucination might get across the field. At that point it's too late. A stalker would perhaps be a wise investment instead of the sentry in order to regain map control until ling speed completes at 6:00 (although, technically, if Losira had 3 drones in gas, the metabolic boost would be started a full minute earlier, and thus, complete a full minute earlier). Once again, lack of information, while the zerg holds all the cards.
If the protoss is one-basing and isn't getting his expansion, you don't need to execute this roach/ling pressure build, and can simply tech up and prepare for a longer game with the economic advantage. In fact, I would argue that Losira only commits to the pressure build when he sees the Nexus go up. I'm fairly certain that if Alicia was one-basing, Losira would try to find out what he's doing with an overlord and simply get a few more drones and play it 2base vs 1base. Something the zerg should always be able to come out on top with.
Artosis claims that fast DTs will destroy this, but in the second game we see Losira dropping an evo chamber well in time to drop a spore before any DTs arrive. He should be relatively safe from a DT rush. But, that doesn't mean DTs are a horrible answer. Even if you are unable to do any offensive damage at all with your DTs, you can defend your expansion with it and regain map control until the zerg is sitting on Lair tech. This should make you safe against the opening at least.
This does raise another concern however; will DT rushing be the only way to stop this build? Will thus DT expansions (as zerg will become accustomed to DT rushes and include the evo chamber and spores) be the standard way of playing PvZ in the future? Or is there some other way to stop this build as well?
The biggest problem here is the gaping hole of information from 3:50, when the first lings come out and chase away the scouting probe, until 7:00-7:30 or so when the first hallucination might get across the field. At that point it's too late. A stalker would perhaps be a wise investment instead of the sentry in order to regain map control until ling speed completes at 6:00 (although, technically, if Losira had 3 drones in gas, the metabolic boost would be started a full minute earlier, and thus, complete a full minute earlier). Once again, lack of information, while the zerg holds all the cards.
If the protoss is one-basing and isn't getting his expansion, you don't need to execute this roach/ling pressure build, and can simply tech up and prepare for a longer game with the economic advantage. In fact, I would argue that Losira only commits to the pressure build when he sees the Nexus go up. I'm fairly certain that if Alicia was one-basing, Losira would try to find out what he's doing with an overlord and simply get a few more drones and play it 2base vs 1base. Something the zerg should always be able to come out on top with.
Artosis claims that fast DTs will destroy this, but in the second game we see Losira dropping an evo chamber well in time to drop a spore before any DTs arrive. He should be relatively safe from a DT rush. But, that doesn't mean DTs are a horrible answer. Even if you are unable to do any offensive damage at all with your DTs, you can defend your expansion with it and regain map control until the zerg is sitting on Lair tech. This should make you safe against the opening at least.
This does raise another concern however; will DT rushing be the only way to stop this build? Will thus DT expansions (as zerg will become accustomed to DT rushes and include the evo chamber and spores) be the standard way of playing PvZ in the future? Or is there some other way to stop this build as well?
edit: Just correcting some typos. Don't mind me!
