EPT[G]Worker Splitting & Improving Mining efficiency - Page 3
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
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Knipchip
Netherlands11 Posts
On April 13 2011 05:52 t3tsubo wrote: well if you screw up this micro you could end up 30-40 minerals behind, so its kinda a double edged butterknife This topic is set up to provide a way to improve, be it by a fraction. I totally have to agree that, if you want to improve, you should eventually also strive to perfect worker splitting and stack mining. You don't have anything else to do at this stage of the game anyway and it might help you getting focused at least more than if you'd have done nothing. By the way, I've been using this technique since I was in bronze, in search of a way to perfect my almost perfect pre-opening and I found it quite hard to screw up this micro after a few games, even at that time. | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
Using the OP's method causes all workers to travel to and bunch up on the furthest patch when it is not necessary. You can see a real difference if you test it. It's also just easier to click the furthest patches too, in my opinion. | ||
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Thraundil
Denmark278 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:31 .kv wrote: ugh you shouldn't click the mineral patch you posted in your image but actually the third mineral patch IMO...it's closer The point is not to get the 3 probes to a close mineral patch as soon as possible. The goal is to get as many close mineral patches mining as possible. Assume, like on XNC, the mineral fields are spread like this; 1. Close 2. Far 3. Close 4. Far 5. Far 6. Close 7. Far 8. Close His guide says to click 3 probes onto 2 from the start. This will result in automatic splitting of these 3 probes among 1, 2 and 3, thus giving mining from 2 close and 1 far. If you instead do what you say, click the 3 probes on 3, the auto splitting will place the probes on 2, 3 and 4, mining from 1 close and 2 far. Clicking 3 probes to 2 and 7 gives 4 close and 2 far mining nodes, resulting in the overall most efficient mining. When you then synch up the workers eventually (added bonus; this is easy to do when theres already a desynched probe at 2 and 7 you can place on 1, 3, 6 or 8 all depending on which lines up better). Great writeup OP, surprised that I havent seen this from someone already :D | ||
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Kornholi0
Canada634 Posts
Idra never lost a game cause he didn't split his drones. This basically means that sure, you get a "lead" but that lead is instantly lost once you hit the mid-game. Once you hit certain variables where 5 minerals no longer is an issue (maynarding probes, oversaturation, loss of probe etc) You having that lead means absolutely nothing. It is a good habit, and it actually was worth doing in broodwar because your units did not auto split, but because they do so in SCII there is absolutely no reason to worry about that kind of economic lead. Purest form of this example, if 2 zergs 6p the one who splits his drones and the one who doesn't split his drones will have lings at the exact same time OR if this example holds true and you get an extra lead (by no means can you actually apply it but w/e) you should have 3 sets of lings FASTER than the other guy. But the point is you both 6pooled, which means you both have 6 lings anyways, which means that you didn't actually get ahead or behind by having those lings 0.05 seconds sooner. I don't mean to downvote your post, I think it is a great idea to split guys, it gets into good habit and causes a certain flow to your builds. I would look more to how that helps your timing for your first buildings more than if it helps you get more workers... It doesn't create economic lead as you both have the same exact minerals regardless at the end of the day. | ||
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Knipchip
Netherlands11 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:28 Kornholi0 wrote: I may not have blue post or high masters rank or been in hundreds of leagues... But I can tell you this. Idra never lost a game cause he didn't split his drones. This basically means that sure, you get a "lead" but that lead is instantly lost once you hit the mid-game. Once you hit certain variables where 5 minerals no longer is an issue (maynarding probes, oversaturation, loss of probe etc) You having that lead means absolutely nothing. It is a good habit, and it actually was worth doing in broodwar because your units did not auto split, but because they do so in SCII there is absolutely no reason to worry about that kind of economic lead. Purest form of this example, if 2 zergs 6p the one who splits his drones and the one who doesn't split his drones will have lings at the exact same time OR if this example holds true and you get an extra lead (by no means can you actually apply it but w/e) you should have 3 sets of lings FASTER than the other guy. But the point is you both 6pooled, which means you both have 6 lings anyways, which means that you didn't actually get ahead or behind by having those lings 0.05 seconds sooner. I don't mean to downvote your post, I think it is a great idea to split guys, it gets into good habit and causes a certain flow to your builds. I would look more to how that helps your timing for your first buildings more than if it helps you get more workers... It doesn't create economic lead as you both have the same exact minerals regardless at the end of the day. I think it's more important to look at PvP, where a few seconds do matter. Plus, certain openings are suddenly viable and thus surely worth the effort. | ||
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:28 Kornholi0 wrote: I may not have blue post or high masters rank or been in hundreds of leagues... But I can tell you this. Idra never lost a game cause he didn't split his drones. This basically means that sure, you get a "lead" but that lead is instantly lost once you hit the mid-game. Once you hit certain variables where 5 minerals no longer is an issue (maynarding probes, oversaturation, loss of probe etc) You having that lead means absolutely nothing. It is a good habit, and it actually was worth doing in broodwar because your units did not auto split, but because they do so in SCII there is absolutely no reason to worry about that kind of economic lead. Purest form of this example, if 2 zergs 6p the one who splits his drones and the one who doesn't split his drones will have lings at the exact same time OR if this example holds true and you get an extra lead (by no means can you actually apply it but w/e) you should have 3 sets of lings FASTER than the other guy. But the point is you both 6pooled, which means you both have 6 lings anyways, which means that you didn't actually get ahead or behind by having those lings 0.05 seconds sooner. I don't mean to downvote your post, I think it is a great idea to split guys, it gets into good habit and causes a certain flow to your builds. I would look more to how that helps your timing for your first buildings more than if it helps you get more workers... It doesn't create economic lead as you both have the same exact minerals regardless at the end of the day. I've spent hours testing zerg openings for a few of my threads, and I can tell you that microing your workers at the start can make a SIGNIFICANT difference. I've had people send me their replays that surpassed the results I got in my testing, and the differences all came down to their methods of microing workers, where as I simply sent all workers and rallied to a single patch and let the AI do the rest in order to have consistency of results. At the end of the day though, the real question is if there is any reason NOT to micro your workers. Clearly there isn't. You aren't doing anything else in the opening anyways, you might as well go for a mineral advantage and also practice your mouse control at the same time. | ||
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asd125172
United States52 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:21 jdseemoreglass wrote: I just wanted to clarify a slight mistake in the OP. It seems to suggest that sending 3 workers to the middle, further patch is fastest, but actually it is not. For example, in the picture provided, you would want to select the most left patch, and for the second 3 probes, send them to the most right patch. It does make a small difference in the speed that each probe reaches the closest mineral patches. Using the OP's method causes all workers to travel to and bunch up on the furthest patch when it is not necessary. You can see a real difference if you test it. It's also just easier to click the furthest patches too, in my opinion. This is true, but this also leads to slower de-synchronization of workers, which is bad for stack mining. Eventually, it was determined that sending them to the middle was the best method. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:41 Alejandrisha wrote: On xel-naga you want to click those 2 middle patches like he showed in the OP. It makes 4/6 of your probes start mining the most efficient patches. It's true you could send 3/3 then break them off so they start mining them faster.. but this is the best way without having 6000 apm and the precision of a surgeon. http://www.justin.tv/tehemperorer/b/282593761 jump to 40 seconds, split is at 45 My 4-1-1 split that hit all close mineral patches; they all go to the closest patches naturally. Works on all maps but Tal Darim, Shakuras Plat, and Shattered Temp. Click all on middle patch, then split 1 to bottom edge then grab another split to top edge. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:48 Alejandrisha wrote: That's probably the ideal split for that map but on xel naga you can't send 4 to one patch and have them grab the 4 most efficient patches. Ah, I forgot different maps have very different patches. I don't know how many minerals I'd get in time when ordering the second probe, but I do know that the easiest to do/best benefit comes from a 3/3 split to the two farther mineral patches on XNC like the OP and Alej have stated. | ||
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Flameling
United States413 Posts
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
This lets you stack all you're probes on close mineral patches after 2 trips. For an example see game starting at 1:24:00 in http://www.justin.tv/jaegertv/b/283349658 This does make an impact for protoss, it lets you chrono boost at just over 38 energy without being supply blocked which means your first chrono boost finishes just as you get 25 energy on your nexus for your second chrono boost making your early game mining and probe production as efficient as possible. This for instance let's you get a 13gate 14gas without a bump in probe production. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
It gives you 150 minerals by 5 minutes Thats a free goddamn gateway or roach warren Thats the difference between winning and losing the game with certain builds The difference is so pronounced its actually shown to be a better idea to force onto the close patches REGARDLESS of whether you are desynched properly or not. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
So you have to be really careful on not muling the same patches over and over again, and sometimes mule the far away patches, otherwise you end up actually decreasing your mining efficiency a bit later in the game. | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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Squirrelly.Zerg
United States20 Posts
I actually do feel that the early game probe tricks and such are the difference between having that collo out in time to stop the 4-gate (I am only in plat so the 4-gates are most likely slow) or looking like an idiot as an army marches into your base without anything to stop it. | ||
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