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[G] Spanishiwa's No Gas FE ZvX - Page 23

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Sixes
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1123 Posts
April 13 2011 23:15 GMT
#441
When faced with greedy expands (even just a protoss going for extremely quick second) I have had great success taking a super fast third. Zerg, especially with this build, can saturate a third so fast it's unreal and if the toss doesn't feel like moving, that's fine with me.

On a slightly unrelated note I have also had quite a lot of success against toss patrolling overseers/queens to take out observers then massing mutas like crazy. There is very little a toss can do if he gets surprised by 30 mutas :o, they all seem to blindly go for colossi and none of them will blindly go for phoenix as a late game strat.
Dairith
Profile Joined March 2011
United States4 Posts
April 14 2011 03:18 GMT
#442
How are people feeling about 13 hatch 15 pool vs 16/15? I haven't had much time to practice recently, so I've only done 13/15 and the timing works out very smoothly; how does the 16h/15p compare?
Kogut
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States147 Posts
April 14 2011 03:53 GMT
#443
DarkForce, why you no win NASL? Perhaps you could have used some Spanishiwa flare!

Looking forward to seeing this build on the D9D.

User was warned for this post
CHILL GET OUT
IMLyte
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada714 Posts
April 14 2011 03:56 GMT
#444
I was just going to write about this, i have been using this strat to great success for a few days now helped me comeback from a bad slump
I'ma show you how great I am ~ Muhammed Ali
Malkavian183
Profile Joined February 2011
Turkey227 Posts
April 14 2011 07:59 GMT
#445
I have been trying this build a lot and it's been quite good for me, though it was hard to adjust at first. For it may be hard to time your units to come out at the right time or making the best of your few scouting units. Especially vs protoss i found the it was incredibly amazing cause at first you just go infestor lings when they see this they usually go a lot of zealots with colossus after this i go mass baneling + mass roach then it is usually gg. Fungal growth on zealots + neural on colossus makes it really hard to match. (also good if you can keep up with the upgrade i go +3/+3 like everygame that goes longer then 14 minutes.)
Against greedy openings.. well i usually have at least three hatcheries 50 to 60 drones and more than 600-700 minerals that i can expand easily by the time mass droning ends and you take 4 gaysers simultaneously with 4-5 spinecrawlers. If they go greedy, you can be even more greedy ^^. I had no problems with this build. Helped me come back quite a bit after not being able to play for a few months. Thanks to Spanishiwa for this.
Inject Bitch!
LastMan
Profile Joined April 2011
90 Posts
April 14 2011 09:44 GMT
#446
wouldnt marauders + blue flame helion push destroy it ?
blazingblue16
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada41 Posts
April 14 2011 10:19 GMT
#447
On April 14 2011 18:44 LastMan wrote:
wouldnt marauders + blue flame helion push destroy it ?


crawlers and queens and good ling flanks on the rauders should be able to defend, until you get mutas up.
Saiton
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Sweden467 Posts
April 14 2011 14:00 GMT
#448
Note to self:
This COMPLETELY owns 7-rax all in's á la TLO.
Top diamond terran streaming at http://www.twitch.tv/saitontv
osten
Profile Joined March 2008
Sweden316 Posts
April 14 2011 14:30 GMT
#449
I feel stupid using "ice fisher" when I don't know why it's funny or what it could mean.
Marzuki
Profile Joined April 2011
United States30 Posts
April 14 2011 14:43 GMT
#450
Spanishiwa, I absolutely love you for this. I tried this a few time last night and while it took some getting used to (mainly having sooooo many minerals. I can make HOW many zerglings right now?!) it is extremely solid.
dUTtrOACh
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2339 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-14 14:54:29
April 14 2011 14:51 GMT
#451
Love the name of this style.'The Ice Fisher'. Just great! I'd always thought it was fairly normal to go crazy with drones and queens with no gas, but having it named is some sort of validation.
twitch.tv/duttroach
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-14 15:08:13
April 14 2011 15:07 GMT
#452

On March 31 2011 21:35 DarKFoRcE wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Meh. I see this mainly working because people dont realize the big weaknesses of this build. I absolutely dont see you holding some kind of 2 rax pressure into expand into 5 rax stimpush, as you will not even have zergling speed done when the push is outside of your base. and slow lings against stimmed MM is no fun.

Against P i find it problematic not to be able to scout very well (like checking whether he takes gas at his nat, cancel his nexus and stuff like that.. al that is way harder with slow lings). furthermore, as kcdc said, you have no offensive potential, so P can just take a third very save.

And in ZvZ i absolutely hate this build. No scouting, You have to invest in static defense while your opponent can drone super heavily, while at the same time him having mapcontrol and being able to take a third before you do. Also "sneaking slow lings into his base" is somewhat... lol, this just doesnt work against competent opponents.

Overall i think this build CAN work, if your opponent does not exploit it properly, but i think it is rather easy to exploit, at least in ZvP and ZvZ because it is easy to scout there. In ZvT i guess it might work out well sometimes, but if your opponents goes for an early stimpush or smth. like that youre screwed :/

Agreed on these. I was thinking of the lack of offensive threat as well. I don't think that's a very good idea as Zerg. If you let T or P secure a 3rd early on, ouch. I also think some fancy relatively early Collosus push off of 2 base with lots of high energy Sentries should be able to stomp this when timed right, Zerglings vs Collosus / Sentry is no fun man.

`edit => this is pure theorycraft by me, I have not seen it in action yet
Talkerst
Profile Joined October 2010
124 Posts
April 14 2011 15:34 GMT
#453
I've been using this build with relatively good success howerver both my games last night vs toss they went blink stalker. First game was on Shakuras and they went 2-gate robo expand into mass blink. Then used an observer to gain access to the back of my main. This seems to be really hard to stop even with scouting as there is no way you'll have fast lings by then and spines will be way out of position.

Second map was lost temple and he used blink to get behind the minerals at my natural early (~7 minute mark). Do the spines need to be set up to defend all the way back there? Seems like with blink you just can't have enough spines to defend all the angles and the ramp. Anyone else have experience against blink builds?
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
April 14 2011 16:01 GMT
#454
I wonder when we'll see this style in starleague play.
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-14 17:28:27
April 14 2011 17:25 GMT
#455
I ctrl f'd this thread, and I didn't see any mention of zelniq. This build/strategy is deriviative of Zelniq's from beta or a little after release, isn't it? Or am I missing something? It was mentioned frequently on day9's daily last year (when I watched day9 every day).

I haven't played Z in months, though, so I may be missing the subtleties.
commiekaze
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada31 Posts
April 14 2011 17:47 GMT
#456
On April 15 2011 02:25 -_- wrote:
I ctrl f'd this thread, and I didn't see any mention of zelniq. This build/strategy is deriviative of Zelniq's from beta or a little after release, isn't it? Or am I missing something? It was mentioned frequently on day9's daily last year (when I watched day9 every day).

I haven't played Z in months, though, so I may be missing the subtleties.


I heard Sheth say the same thing on the stream. Probably should credit Zelniq with the initial build if this is the case, not that it matter that much.

I like this build, its a nice "order" to develop timings and such. Im not very good but from what I understand, is if you do see some early pressure or some other THING that you dont feel comfortable dealing with, wouldnt you just deviate (like get earlier gas as mentioned by others in the thread)? I dont think 1 build should ever be the end all build.

Sure its about scouting and the like, but you dont have to do the same build all the time.
It's Best, Bro.
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-14 18:07:17
April 14 2011 17:59 GMT
#457
On April 15 2011 02:47 commiekaze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2011 02:25 -_- wrote:
I ctrl f'd this thread, and I didn't see any mention of zelniq. This build/strategy is deriviative of Zelniq's from beta or a little after release, isn't it? Or am I missing something? It was mentioned frequently on day9's daily last year (when I watched day9 every day).

I haven't played Z in months, though, so I may be missing the subtleties.


I heard Sheth say the same thing on the stream. Probably should credit Zelniq with the initial build if this is the case, not that it matter that much.

I like this build, its a nice "order" to develop timings and such. Im not very good but from what I understand, is if you do see some early pressure or some other THING that you dont feel comfortable dealing with, wouldnt you just deviate (like get earlier gas as mentioned by others in the thread)? I dont think 1 build should ever be the end all build.

Sure its about scouting and the like, but you dont have to do the same build all the time.


I heard it from Sheth as well! And then a bunch of interesting replays popped into my head with tons of queens and zerglings smashing through players. I honestly dislike people trying to name builds after themselves, or name builds period. Everyone wants to be Bisu!

I think Spanishiwa is a cool player, and I know he's not seeking undue attention, but at this point you can't really invent builds. Everyone noob has done everything at least once. The only thing you can do is use a build at the absolute top level of play which wasn't previously used at that level. And Spanishiwa isn't at the top just yet.

Again, just want to stress that I think Spanishiwa is neat and I am not dissing him, nor am I ungrateful for sharing his builds and strats on this forum!
commiekaze
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada31 Posts
April 14 2011 18:18 GMT
#458
On April 15 2011 02:59 -_- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2011 02:47 commiekaze wrote:
On April 15 2011 02:25 -_- wrote:
I ctrl f'd this thread, and I didn't see any mention of zelniq. This build/strategy is deriviative of Zelniq's from beta or a little after release, isn't it? Or am I missing something? It was mentioned frequently on day9's daily last year (when I watched day9 every day).

I haven't played Z in months, though, so I may be missing the subtleties.


I heard Sheth say the same thing on the stream. Probably should credit Zelniq with the initial build if this is the case, not that it matter that much.

I like this build, its a nice "order" to develop timings and such. Im not very good but from what I understand, is if you do see some early pressure or some other THING that you dont feel comfortable dealing with, wouldnt you just deviate (like get earlier gas as mentioned by others in the thread)? I dont think 1 build should ever be the end all build.

Sure its about scouting and the like, but you dont have to do the same build all the time.


I heard it from Sheth as well! And then a bunch of interesting replays popped into my head with tons of queens and zerglings smashing through players. I honestly dislike people trying to name builds after themselves, or name builds period. Everyone wants to be Bisu!

I think Spanishiwa is a cool player, and I know he's not seeking undue attention, but at this point you can't really invent builds. Everyone noob has done everything at least once. The only thing you can do is use a build at the absolute top level of play which wasn't previously used at that level. And Spanishiwa isn't at the top just yet.

Again, just want to stress that I think Spanishiwa is neat and I am not dissing him, nor am I ungrateful for sharing his builds and strats on this forum!


Yeah this "build" isnt anything absolutely new or innovative, its just very specific and slightly different. Like I said before, it wont work for ABSOLUTELY everything but neither will any other "order of building" (lol) unless you scout and deviate/adapt to whatevers going on.

The naming of the build doesnt bother me personally, but Im sure some people would have issue with it.
It's Best, Bro.
Vladrac
Profile Joined February 2011
United States4 Posts
April 14 2011 20:04 GMT
#459
I think this build is spectacular! Since I've incorporated it in my 1v1, 2v2, and 4v4 play, everything about zerg seems so smooth and fluid. I think it is a very nice deviation from what everyone was doing and was used to. Zerg can certainly survive fairly easily with a FE and super late gas. Simply playing this build has taught me that zerg static defense and queens are very powerful.

Thank you Spanishiwa for sharing this build with the community!
I <3 alien bugs
ScottyBowflex
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2 Posts
April 14 2011 21:18 GMT
#460
I've been trying this build out at the mid diamond level for the last few days and I must say, it has produced some of the most epic and entertaining games I've played in quite some time. I've been finding that it really shines against Protoss, and from studying the 12 weeks episode, I find that it values a lot of elements of the Zerg arsenal that aren't utilized nearly enough.

Two thumbs up, Spanishwa!
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