I have had tried using the nydus worm counter against both toss and terran cheese contain with speedlings and banes. It is the hardest against toss IMO since they will probably have a cannon at their ramp and if they expand as they plan the toss seem to always place 1-2 canons at their natural. But against terran I feel it is easier since they usually will have nothing at their main except for a few marines or a tank or 2.

Acridice

United States298 Posts

March 28 2011 15:03 GMT

#23

Sure, Nydus worm works. But wow, I watched the replay, and I have to say that this is the stupidest shit I have ever seen (From the Toss). He wasted a ridiculous amount of minerals on everything, and he didn't even expand behind it. There are so many things you could have done. The first thing you should have done is just go take another main. He built a cannon at your nat, and not your ramp first. You could have easily gotten as many drones as you wanted out of your base to take another base besides your natural.

Then, the Nydus would be even stronger because your on 2 base, he's on one. It's not like he can attack you because he built about 15 cannons = 2250 minerals + 6 pylons = approx. 3k minerals. So hell yeah, nydus him, but you should also take a 2nd base. It took him forever to get cannons at your ramp. Now it is a different story if the toss actually has brains enough to pylon block your ramp and build cannon behind it. It achieves the same damn thing essentially. In that case either spread creep and get spines at your ramp, or just bust it with a few roaches.

Acridice

United States298 Posts

March 28 2011 15:04 GMT

#24

On March 28 2011 23:46 P0ckets wrote:
I have had tried using the nydus worm counter against both toss and terran cheese contain with speedlings and banes. It is the hardest against toss IMO since they will probably have a cannon at their ramp and if they expand as they plan the toss seem to always place 1-2 canons at their natural. But against terran I feel it is easier since they usually will have nothing at their main except for a few marines or a tank or 2.

How does a cannon at the toss's ramp prevent a Nydus in a blind spot in their base?

P0ckets

United States430 Posts

March 28 2011 15:58 GMT

#25

On March 29 2011 00:04 Acridice wrote:

Show nested quote +

How does a cannon at the toss's ramp prevent a Nydus in a blind spot in their base?

From my experience typically when you contain you expand behind it to keep the advantage, which you have gained by denying the Zerg expansion. When this happens the terran will most likely will not have any bunkers at his main base in a bunker rush since he is focusing them at your ramp, while a toss usually will throw down 1-3 cannons at ramp & natural during a canon rush. This means that your all in is more likely to succeed against the terran since banes and lings verses marines usually fairs well. But toss will probably have static defense and be transition into WG play, which fairs less well against banes and lings. Also even if the terran does build bunkers he will most likely place them in front of natural in preparation for zerg bust, which could allow you to run down ramp into natural and hit their min line without really engaging the bunkers. The toss would have 1 cannon at his ramp and the others on top or almost on top of his nexus.

haffy

United Kingdom430 Posts

March 28 2011 16:04 GMT

#26

I think researching drops is better. It's slower than nydus but it lets you put your units where you want when you get there. Also has more use if the game some how evens out.

J-C-erloeser

Germany55 Posts

March 28 2011 16:06 GMT

#27

zerg ways to deal with cannon rush:
scout opponent...

the creep and early pool take care of any cannon-BS if you see it coming.

if you cant respond early enough
let him spend all the money on cannons and do a one base roach opening.
get some queens and spread creep. or get some lings for an fast counter-strike in case you wont get mass-creep/roach speed early on.
if you see him build gateway units: push...
he will not have a lot of stuff.

ThE_OsToJiY

Canada1167 Posts

March 28 2011 16:09 GMT

#28

The weakness of cannon rushing someone is that you have no idea what they are doing. You can threaten to either break the contain with roaches or banelings or tech up to lair and get nydus (or even mutas, but not my favorite choice).

imbecile

563 Posts

March 28 2011 16:17 GMT

#29

I almost always do nydus in response to cannon or bunker rush/contain that I didn't scout or stop in time. Works well with zerg, because creep i prevents them from coming too close and gives you enough time to tech up. If you have a hatch building already, it also buys you quite a bit of time, and then you cancel.

If possible I even sneak drones out or use my scouting drone to take a hidden expo, and then attack the front at the same time as I have the nydus.

But the key is to delay ling speed, get lots of queens and creep, possibly a hidden expo or a macro hatch (for even more creep).

rsvp

United States2266 Posts

March 28 2011 16:18 GMT

#30

On March 29 2011 01:09 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
The weakness of cannon rushing someone is that you have no idea what they are doing. You can threaten to either break the contain with roaches or banelings or tech up to lair and get nydus (or even mutas, but not my favorite choice).

Huh? Are you talking about if you do a 3 pylon/ramp block? Because otherwise it's very easy to scout the Zerg...

And even if you do a ramp block, is it really impossible to jump a probe into the main? Maybe you can't anymore (I dunno, I haven't done a ramp block since 1.2 came out), but it was easy to do back when it only took 2 pylons to block the ramp.

Acridice

United States298 Posts

March 28 2011 16:50 GMT

#31

On March 29 2011 00:58 P0ckets wrote:

Show nested quote +

Honestly dude, well we're referencing PvZ here. Regardless... what kind of protoss puts down cannons at his main Nexus after blocking a zerg's ramp? Not to mention, when you do a 1 base Nydus, you're going to be low on gas, so you're Nydus should be lings/roach. No offense, but when you say in your experience, what level is the experienced gained at?

I hate to say it, but in this replay it was a very very poor strat from the toss. He wasted about 3k of minerals on cannons/pylons, and then didn't even expand behind it. I think my favorite part were the 7 cannons at HIS ramp after he had already contained you. Don't understand this at all. And, yes, in this case Nydus was perfect because all his defense was at his ramp.

Now that I think about it, I'm not really even sure what this thread is supposed to be about? What to do when a toss does a horrible cannon rush against you? In this case, TBH you should have just expanded somehwere else since his cannons started at your nat. As I said above, if he pylon blocks your ramp, you either go roach to break it or spines.

eCakes

Australia32 Posts

March 28 2011 16:50 GMT

#32

i have a 2 hatch nydus in that i do if i dont like the map/positions or if i scout at 10 supply and see a forge expand from protoss, it could work if a contain is set up but that would delay it a bit. It looks normal at the time of the first probe scout, and you can deny scouting after that. I hide my nydus with an overlord producing creep but soooooo many things can go wrong before it hits at 6:30 to 6:40 with a little over 20 slings.
Given that you have 2 hatches and a queen you can transition out of it but only if you do some damage and everything goes right for you.