Marines... are just awesome, awesome units.

Though now the Stim Timing is delayed by thirty seconds, either you would have to cut marine production originally (if Toss expos) and get the early refinery, or simply delay the attack. Each has its own merits.

Tatari

United States1179 Posts

March 31 2011 03:13 GMT

#282

I've seen a number of Terrans doing this to me, and honestly, it just doesn't work. Camping on a ramp while teching to Colossi and getting upgrades off 2 bases absolutely demolished this build. Doing a 3 gate counter attack after the initial wave of marines brings out the gg. Any decent Protoss scouting the expo through an obs/phoenix/probe will immediately drop down their own expo while teching up.

Jonas :)

United States511 Posts

March 31 2011 03:19 GMT

#283

if you suspect that a terran is just going mass marines, I'd make 5 gateways and double forge and abuse guardian shield and +1 armor to makes marines do a joke damage. stay on 2 bases, get +2 +2 and get 2 or 3 collosus and move out. Leave 2 or 3 sentries behind to forcefield the ramp to your main if he tries to base trade.

@OP: don't act like you invented this build, lol

jay236

29 Posts

March 31 2011 03:36 GMT

#284

^ Strictly following this build no matter what P does, does not mean auto win. Obviously you have to adapt to what the P is doing.

1 Base Colossus should prompt the T to either go standard Viking Bioball macro game.

This build is extremely timing and micro intensive...so it usually only works around the Master's level.

I guess the main focus of this build is to prevent a 2 base timing attack with FF abuse (FF T's ramp, kill expo and be able to safely expand).

Phobophile412

Canada3 Posts

March 31 2011 03:48 GMT

#285

This strat shouldn't be done on map where a toss can camp out at a second base easily(I.E Shakuras) and get Forges/Robo tech safely. You do it on maps with really open nats like Slag Pits, Metapolis, Shatered Temple etc... so you can pressure like a Mofo as the build suggest. I've been trying it out seriously and have been having pretty decent sucess. 2-1 so far and I'm 3.3K Masters Random Player.

Games: http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=34211

kNightLite

United States408 Posts

March 31 2011 04:02 GMT

#286

Have you tried adding one ghost to this strategy?

It seems to me that this build's greatest weakness is sentry FF and guardian shield. An early ghost would be a great way to deal with that. You already have a barracks with a tech lab, and plenty of gas.

Keilah

731 Posts

March 31 2011 05:07 GMT

#287

On March 31 2011 12:19 Jonas wrote:
if you suspect that a terran is just going mass marines, I'd make 5 gateways and double forge and abuse guardian shield and +1 armor to makes marines do a joke damage. stay on 2 bases, get +2 +2 and get 2 or 3 collosus and move out. Leave 2 or 3 sentries behind to forcefield the ramp to your main if he tries to base trade.

@OP: don't act like you invented this build, lol

i'd think a single forge for +armor and a twilight for charge would be much more efficient and allow you to keep up with unit production +expanding all game long. The second forge (do you really need attack upgrades?) and the robo, support bay, and range upgrade could all be cut.

In the (2) replays I watched, the protoss was slow to upgrade and replaced very few sentries after early game. Presumably because he was spending too much gas on other tech that, IMO, was less effective. Chrono out +2 armor, get charge, and keep building sentries. Colossus, templar, etc can come after that.

also occurs to me that you probably don't want more than 2-3 sentries per engagement, as that's enough to GS + throw down 3-5 FFs without exposing your gas units to too much risk.

BeastofManju

United States79 Posts

March 31 2011 06:06 GMT

#288

Video of this build being used in a pro match. I dont know if it has already been posted here. This is Pre 1.3.

Hattori_Hanzo

Singapore1229 Posts

March 31 2011 12:03 GMT

#289

On March 29 2011 07:41 jay236 wrote:

Tried this against a 3400+ masters on Xel Naga Caverns.

I probably could've executed the build more smoothly, but he raged anyways which made me happy :D.

You drank his delicious TEARS OF RAEG, congratulations.

Most Protoss don't seem to like being constantly pressured every 30s.

ZeGzoR

Sweden307 Posts

March 31 2011 12:15 GMT

#290

I played versus this build in 3k+ Master EU. I have yet to lost to it. Just go the standard 2gate robo into nexus. Add a third gateway when u scout it and pump out units. Hold his push and add a robo bay. Make some colossus, when u have 2 out its basicly a free win.

The thing is if u have 1 or 2 observers out u can see when hes going to push and prepare for it. Marines move slowly without stim and u can add the exact amont of units to defend the pushes.

The push however is rly hard to defend on maps that doesnt have some sort of choke to your nat.

SleeplessDad

Hong Kong2 Posts

March 31 2011 13:53 GMT

#291

Thanks StimmedProbe...

I have done this build for 2 weeks now and it improved my TvP matchups dramatically. I used to hate protoss matchups and now I look forward to them.

I am a very casual player in High Silver rank, so I won't say my opponents are good, nor am I a good player myself. I have adapted this build slightly differently for this particular reason.

- Instead of expanding early, I take 100 minerals to build a bunker near expo before I through down the CC, that way I can fend off some early zealots

- At all possible, I do wall off my choke so I won't have issues having early zealots running through the early bunker straight to my main

- I do 2 to 3 bunkers around expo as I am not good microing marines against early set of gateway units. They delay my rax'es but gave me extra peace of mind.

- I have had problems with DT build so now I throw down an engineering bay at around 4/5 rax and a turret at choke where my marines are rallied to.

They are slowing down the build so there's a risk of your opponent building up more colo / HT, but hopefully this suits those lower ranked players who prefer security over aggressiveness.

jay236

29 Posts

March 31 2011 20:45 GMT

#292

Here's another one against a 3400+ Season 1 toss.

THIS ONE IS EXTRA HILARIOUS. I tried to fake him out with an incomplete Gas refinery...but his probe just BARELY manages to sneak in and see my fast expo.

He even knew it was coming...and raged at the end hard core after a fail 4 gate. I guess he didn't expect my stim timing

You definitely need to have a open NAT otherwise the opponent can FF rape you.

3/3 Successfully raged decent Master's Protoss...this Season is too funny.

jay236

29 Posts

April 01 2011 03:25 GMT

#293

3500+ Season 1, on Xel Naga Caverns.

Pretty much fended off a 4WG all-in. I guess he couldn't make up his mind and eventually tried to expo/tech to Colossi.

Keilah

731 Posts

April 01 2011 03:40 GMT

#294

On April 01 2011 05:45 jay236 wrote:

gg, but you are a sad little man

jay236

29 Posts

April 01 2011 03:51 GMT

#295

On April 01 2011 12:40 Keilah wrote:

Show nested quote +

gg, but you are a sad little man

You mad bro?

Keilah

731 Posts

April 01 2011 04:11 GMT

#296

i'm glad you grasped my point

tchan

Australia121 Posts

April 01 2011 05:48 GMT

#297

Any replays against blink stalkers?

dmillz

Canada270 Posts

April 01 2011 06:57 GMT

#298

Just tried this a bunch on ladder (gold league) and went 4/5 against protoss only losing once to colossi because my vikings were about 1 production cycle too late. Extremely effective, I plan on continuing to use and refine this build :D.

underdawg

United States399 Posts

April 01 2011 07:10 GMT

#299

On April 01 2011 05:45 jay236 wrote:

ok i'm not masters but he didn't make probes after he saw your expo, while having plenty of minerals to do so...

scrub96

United States76 Posts

April 01 2011 13:18 GMT

#300

On April 01 2011 16:10 underdawg wrote:

Show nested quote +