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[G] StimmedProbe’s Million Man Marine TvP Style - Page 17

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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guN-viCe
Profile Joined March 2010
United States687 Posts
April 17 2011 21:47 GMT
#321
I haven't had time to read all of the replies, but I did watch all of the VOD's you put up. I think the counter to pure marines is pure sentry/zealot. Sentries are the T1.5 counter to light units from my understanding. FF, GS, hell even Hallucinate seem to be very effective.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'd like to see a replay where you go against 3gate sentry/zealot=> expo => collo with range.

I play Terran.
Never give up, never surrender!!! ~~ Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -Sagan
VEReHrT
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada121 Posts
April 17 2011 22:09 GMT
#322
On April 17 2011 21:15 gazine wrote:
Sovjet special tactics!


[image loading]

Onward Comrades!
As long as we keep our passion as progamers, we will always have an opportunity to meet again. On a purely personal note, I'd like to show him the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. SlayerS_BoxeR
Benjef
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom6921 Posts
April 17 2011 22:15 GMT
#323
Any pros used this in any tournaments yet? I love the idea surrounding the build and would love to see it used.
<3 | Dota 2 | DayZ | <3
CatNzHat
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1599 Posts
April 17 2011 22:52 GMT
#324
I haven't seen anyone beside's stimmed probe use this in a tourney, however I can say myself from experience that this build makes it really easy to punish the standard "safe" protoss play, while remaining protected from the constant stream of all-in 4gate/3gaterobo/3gatestargate play that plagues ladder these days. With good micro (and solid macro ofc) you can easily defeat the 6gate play and transition smoothly into a masss marauder style mid game where your production is actually better than the protoss (a rarity). Most of the bio based builds I see don't have the required production mid game, where it doesn't give you the option to double expo and then slam out a crap ton of units.
Nemasyst.598
Profile Joined February 2011
United States285 Posts
April 18 2011 01:49 GMT
#325
This looked good, but it seems like mass stalkers with blink would pwn this. Especially with a few sentries for FF and guardian shield.
We require additional young Masters....
Komsa
Profile Joined November 2010
United States99 Posts
April 18 2011 03:35 GMT
#326
Just thought i'd share a master level replay.

Opponent applies early pressure and expands. Does a nice push with 5 gates that damages my economy.

MMM fight my way back into it, as opponent goes for 3rd and begins upgrades/colo.

http://www.mediafire.com/?rb4snu3fldtsaed
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. -Woodrow Wilson
eXalt
Profile Joined January 2011
United States71 Posts
April 18 2011 04:28 GMT
#327
On April 18 2011 12:35 Komsa wrote:
Just thought i'd share a master level replay.

Opponent applies early pressure and expands. Does a nice push with 5 gates that damages my economy.

MMM fight my way back into it, as opponent goes for 3rd and begins upgrades/colo.

http://www.mediafire.com/?rb4snu3fldtsaed


Hey that's me! ^^

While I think the marine style is viable, I'm confident it can be countered with good microing.

That game was a custom game in which I was configuring XSplit settings, so with <15 FPS I kinda A-Moved rather than FFing behind bunkers and winning right there. The counter to the build would definitely be getting colossi and getting some nice ForceFields off, if you're up for a rematch just message me! eXalt.554

That said, while I played quite horribly, good game!
Ignorance is Strength.
macrolisk
Profile Joined November 2010
31 Posts
April 18 2011 04:34 GMT
#328
StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style StimmedProbe's Million Man Marine TvP Style

lets play star strikers!!
Loonaii
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada12 Posts
April 18 2011 12:19 GMT
#329
This is the reason I got demoted back to platinum. Lost tto 3 terrans and a random pretty much in a row doing this bullshit.
Thats Whats Up
Bigboss_26
Profile Joined August 2010
United States49 Posts
April 18 2011 12:30 GMT
#330
Thanks for this. Terran's my weakest race, but this gives me a good shot at basic macro improvement because it's fairly straightforward once you get the FE down. I need to work on the timing of barracks 7-10 and gas geyser management, though, that never seems to come out smoothly :/
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
April 18 2011 12:52 GMT
#331
Oh, so that's what TLO did on that youtube video...
now it makes sense, and I thought it was a contribution to Day9 Funday Monday monobattles...
Toxi78
Profile Joined May 2010
966 Posts
April 18 2011 12:53 GMT
#332
this doesnt work against 1 base colossus, the stim upgrade nerf is a HUGE nerf to the build, ive had success against fast expand when i get in the game flow at the beginning, was around 3700 masters prereset so this work at a decent level too.
however i came up with it before you posted the thread(after i saw some mass marine replay on xel naga casted by day9), so i dunno how this would go now that it has become a bit more popular.
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
April 18 2011 12:59 GMT
#333
I have met this build some times on high masters rating and have shut it down every time. There is a build that gives almost no chance to the terran player if he insists on keeping with just marines.

stalker pressure into 1 gate expand. You keep pressuring the terran. When you see many marines you pop a forge and get +1 armor chrono boosted. WHen forge is up you spend all your gas (after armor upgrade) on sentries and make 3-5 cannons (depending on how open the natural is). If he keeps going just marines then you keep spendingn gas on sentries and mienrals on cannons. After a while you will get to use gas for colo tech and then you will be far ahead on upgrades. You can push out with 2 armor and rape him with just about any composition.
Knipchip
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands11 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-18 14:07:04
April 18 2011 14:01 GMT
#334
You should keep in mind protoss won't blindly do a standard (safe) opening, especially not after scouting this kind of build.

On April 18 2011 21:59 StarBrift wrote:stalker pressure into 1 gate expand. You keep pressuring the terran. When you see many marines you pop a forge and get +1 armor chrono boosted. WHen forge is up you spend all your gas (after armor upgrade) on sentries and make 3-5 cannons (depending on how open the natural is). If he keeps going just marines then you keep spendingn gas on sentries and mienrals on cannons. After a while you will get to use gas for colo tech and then you will be far ahead on upgrades. You can push out with 2 armor and rape him with just about any composition.


I've beaten this build 100% of the time in a very similar way! I'm not saying this build isn't viable, but it certainly can be countered.

Pure gateway units just doesn't seem to be viable against this against better players because, given that both micro correctly, even though the initial waves will be killed off, protoss will have a hard time because sentry energy gets scarce. Protoss can't sustain this unit combo against mass marine on the long run because he will be overrun.

I think, key to going up against this build is by defending your natural with cannons, sentries and some stalkers, while teching to colossi and/or getting +1 armor. I don't see how terran can kill protoss that way and terran is forced to transition out of mass marine. Once colossi start to pop out, terran will die otherwise. If the situation demands it, colossi without range do quite well against pure marine when microed correctly. I haven't played enough games against this style yet to judge properly, but it seems protoss can hold this off when terran can't comfortably trade his medium sized marine ball all the time (because of the cannons), which is the strength of this style. When terran is stalled long enough, mass marine dies to almost everything. I don't know how DT/HT/blinkstalker/mass upg play works out but I'd like to see this, although the latter 2 probably fail as terran can easily transition into something that works against these.

I'm interested in terran's point of view/whether terran can beat this with mass marine against me anyway.

tl;dr: Stall terran till colossi+armor seems to be very potent.
Boyo
Profile Joined October 2010
United States226 Posts
April 18 2011 14:13 GMT
#335
I have a good replay as a tiss player ccountering thia BO on tal darim, if any1 wants it lemme know
TickTockBoom
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada185 Posts
April 18 2011 14:30 GMT
#336
I'll try this, looks interesting, hope it can get me better at the game ^^, been having trouble facing toss after they got enough colossus to overwhelm any army I make - -, sentry barriers are annoying too.
IGN: Cupine Char: 945, Sometimes we have to let BW go, and proceed on.
cArn-
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)824 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-18 14:36:16
April 18 2011 14:33 GMT
#337
lol I never saw this thread before, I've been fucking around playing pure marines in all matchups when I don't feel like playing seriously and it seemed surprisingly viable, I wasn't doing it this way tho and was playing on counter attacks (in TvP it's the only way, you can't fight head on if you go pure marine/medivacs as I did). I think this style could be viable by abusing the huge production you can have early on to get map control and expand agressively, and setup counter attacks by keeping squads of marines ready to backstab while having bunkers at home to stall with repair and setting up the marines at home in good position.
That way you can win even if protoss can get several colossus by abusing mobility and chipping at him
Twitter : http://twitter.com/CARNDARAK
BrTarolg
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom3574 Posts
April 18 2011 15:42 GMT
#338
Btw for those of you who are looking for a more sensible way to implement the ideas that come about with this build, try to think about the standard TVP plays and understand why they are just so strong because they use the same kinds of ideas

The reason why 2 rax expo is strong is because you shove your first 12 units down the tosses throat and sacrafie 50 gas to kill 3 sentries or a couple of stalkers or something. Even though it costs you units overall, its technically a cost effective trade since your ultimate goal is to keep both army sizes small

Then many terrans like to open into 5 rax before factory with e-bay, with the similar idea of utilising the cost effectiveness of small numbered terran armies in order to trade units in what seems to be cost ineffecient, but advantagous for terran

Alternatively, the 2/3 rax medi build follows a similar plan - to attack with small groups of units to trade and keep armies small (which is obviously, very easy to do with medivacs!)

---

I really think a lot of terrans need to take some lessons from this build though - it seems kind of silly, but it exactly emphasises exactly how you should play as a terran vs protoss with a bio composition. The fact this build works to a fair extent is just a proof of how powerful these kinds of strategies are

Also, i'm pretty sure all protoss players absolutely lament the idea of having to trade units, rebuild and thus delay their colossi or templars. Every protoss hates it, and a lot of terrans don't realise this - its OK to lose 10 marauders and only kill 2 sentries and 4 stalkers, because you're cutting down on his army and gas!

Its these kinds of strategies and mindset that differentiate a lot of the masters level terrans and protoss players that i play with. Its just just 2 raxFE into 5 rax into fact ebay etc.etc., its a mindset and a gameplan
ZeroTalent
Profile Joined December 2010
United States297 Posts
April 19 2011 01:44 GMT
#339
On April 18 2011 07:15 Benjef wrote:
Any pros used this in any tournaments yet? I love the idea surrounding the build and would love to see it used.


ROOTdrewbie used something similar at MLG several times. Check out his TvP replays from Dallas. It's not quite the same -- I think he gets tech other than stim/barracks/marine/attack+1 before 10 rax :D--but the centerpiece of the early game is definitely a stim with 20-25 marines push.

The key thing I remember from watching his replays is that if you see a fairly early colossus you have to go for double starport to catch back up in vikings.
Can we get an official definition of "all-in"? Please?
DarKcS
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1237 Posts
April 19 2011 01:48 GMT
#340
Hot tip, get armour 1 asap against this build, try and combine it with guardian shield. Pretty sure it takes 50 marine shots to kill a zealot with that combo
Die tomorrow - Live today
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