[G] Improving as A low-level Macro Zerg - Page 2

On February 21 2011 08:03 TheBlueBox wrote:
I'll definitely be reading this. Currently a bronze Zerg, after tanking myself back down from Platinum. (I rushed every game and didn't have any skill to show for it, so I wanna start again. x.x)

On February 21 2011 12:44 b3serker wrote:
Awesome guide

While there's a lot of discussion about the different inject methods for zerg, I'm wondering how do people time their injects properly? I used to do the all hatch on one hotkey, all queens on another, and minimap inject but then I found I had problems timing the injects properly. I've since then switched to hotkeys for individual hatcheries. How does everyone else time the injects?

On February 21 2011 14:03 fatty77 wrote:
Ugghh, talk about a bummer. I started experimenting with new Protoss builds trying to get away from the normal 4 Gate routine, and I started losing a lot. To the point where I just lost focus, and now I'm "reclassified" to rank Gold from Platinum. From being rank 1 in Platinum at one time to now Gold. Man I'm pretty bummed.

So now I'm thinking about switching to Zerg, just for a change of pace. And I need help. And then I stumbled upon this thread. Just wanted to say thanks, I know it took a lot of effort to write this guide but it will go to good use. Thanks again and wish me luck.

On February 21 2011 17:40 Dhalphir wrote:
this was a great post, but I worry a bit that it continues to advance the idea that Zerg is "harder" to play than "ezmode Protoss and Terran", when it isn't the case. That may not have been the intention in the post, but several key paragraphs have that overall tone to them.

On February 21 2011 20:27 blue001 wrote:
You missed one thing, you forgot to define what is a "macro-centric" zerg. As far as I know every player on starcraft is a macro player, you can't play starcraft without managing your base. Second good macro is subjective, even though you state good macro is keeping your resources low and spending up larva and not getting supply blocked, this is true to an extent. But resources are more like options, if you keep your resources low you have limited options, the longer time you take to spend your resources you save your options, and you can make a better expenditure into your larva if you have more scouting information and therefore know what to spend your larva on. So I think both your statements on resources and that idle larvae is wasting larvae is misleading. Take the simplest case. 8pool. Players will keep 3 larva to produce 6 lings, this is clear they're saving the resource for an early timed attack. You mention larvae as a resource at the end of your guide but preach the opposite in the beginning highly contradictory.

Next, when you say place your spawning pool at 200 minerals or 300 minerals, you're missing the point. It's not the resources that is the issue. It's the timing. By ignoring the effect of timing it also misleads players. If you've watched FPVODs of progamers in SCBW, in later stages of the game its okay to hover over thousands of minerals, it just means they have options in addition to the resources they have locked in to what they have scouted, they will sometimes float minerals and gas then throw down 4 factories for a timed attack, even cutting workers. If you lock in all your options, and you realise they weren't worth it then you're screwed. Of course if you lock in resources earlier you gain timing opportunities, and if you keep your options you lose these timings opportunities, but they aren't "wasted" the resources are still there to use, they just lose on certain timings but gain when you use them especially with increased scouting info to make better decision. I suppose timing is an important part of macromanagement and not just limited to economy. I think following your guide people can become better for sure, but they'll become better with some warped concepts. I mean can you really claim that worrying about micro, unit compositions, positioning, movement and usage of army in general is a waste of time? I think if low level players think like that they'll lose an important part of starcraft, infact the strategical things often change games more so at higher levels but it is still important at lower levels. I've seen time and time again shit players who can build an army, but have no clue how to use them that I can obliterate them with a lesser army. They just park their army rallied to some spot infront of their base, no clue when to attack or what units to build, then I will have fun with them with drops or mutalisks, or just win with a counter army with better micro. I mean you claim its hard to develop and gives you small advantage but this is blatantly misleading. Micro is fundamental in starcraft and most of the time separates winning and losing. Strategy is really complex, and unless you're a strategical genius mastermind it's hard to pin down everything. I don't think there can be a general guide about micromanagement or strategy that's for sure, you'll need experience and genius to manuever and build units that take advantage of certain terrain, and to pull off favourable engagements. To be honest even at the highest levels of the game, there are many players who lack timing and judgement, when watching as an observer at least on the same level as say Flash in SCBW.

I think your strategy section makes sense but then you talk about zerg making units at the last possible second. Doesn't this contradict your strategy paragraphs? You claim strategy is about arranging expenditure of resources to accomplish a goal, yes I know this statement is oversimplified but that's not the issue here. You also claim you have to keep your resources very low at all times and use all larvae. Then how can you now claim to switch to units at the last possible time, if you had exhausted all your options by spending resources and using up all larvae. Simply put, you missed an entire important section in the analysis macromanagement, and simply focused on resources where here timing would be more important. It is ONLY AFTER you scout( or know from experience/probabilities) the opponent's timings and what he is doing then you spend on workers or units. If hes pushing out with mass bioball at 6:30, you can setup lings to backstab him ahead of time, and have a complete defense against his army, rather than scraping whatever unit you can at the last second, and possibly losing drones in the process. I also have to mention that you can think of workers as an investment for more resources in the future at the expense of short term timings, and it takes a while for them to payoff since they cost you 1 supply and gather 5 minerals at a time while costing 50, so a timing attack makes you vulnerable because while you've sunk the supply and resources in a drone, it takes a while for them recoup their cost. I think you're right in many aspects yet in your own guide you're undermining yourself, saying things in reverse order. I give this guide a 3/10 because it is a guide focused on helping improving zergs by means of teaching concepts. Yet the concepts aren't expressed in a logical order, it has contradictions and the understanding is very limited, glossing over important parts of the game(not even mentioning maps) and only giving some VERY basic points.

zerg ovie scouting cost=200)? (its 200 cause I am assuming you need to replace that lost ovie for the supply) but then by losing ovies periodically you would have to compensate your gameplay getting more ovies to not be supply capped...