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Zerg counters for protoss air? - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Philip2110
Profile Joined April 2010
Scotland798 Posts
February 19 2011 23:21 GMT
#21
Post a replay if you want to see where you went wrong. Early game on 2 base you should have 3 queens. These can usually hold fairly well vs early air pressure in time to get spire/hydras or static defense.
Master Sc2 - Diamond LoL - Eu W
Ziggitz
Profile Joined September 2010
United States340 Posts
February 20 2011 00:21 GMT
#22
It's pretty lame what protoss can get away with but the situation you were in was not that bad. As soon as the cannon rush failrd and he walled off, you should have taken every precaution possible. That's spire up, pump a few roaches, get two extra queens, morph an overseer and spread your creep.

If you get hit with void rays and don't have enough queens thhe damagee is brutal even if you manage to hold it off in the end. You'll end up building more queens than if you had just built a couple more before hand, you'll miss injects and you'll lose drones. You absolutely CANNOT cry imba about protoss air if he caught you offhuard, raped your economy and then you couldn't macro up and fight it off.

If you had had 4 queens when those voids showed up like you should have then it would have been completely different. If you could have got a few more corruptors up and then been able to transfuse them. Imagine how different the results would have been if you had been able to kill off more void rays before they charged up.

I'll use this moment to plug how awesome queens are against protoss as well. They aren't armored so they tank better than roaches against stalkers, immortals(19 damage instead of 49, holy shit) and void rays. They hit air and colossi at range 7 and they transfuse and spread creep faster. If you get ahead in the early game or you spawned in close positions, lots of queens are a great way to not die.
lilky
Profile Joined January 2011
United States131 Posts
February 20 2011 00:26 GMT
#23
I dont get what the complaint is...this isnt a balance issue, its just that you made a mistake.
You should have sacced an ovie to scout what hes doing on 1 base....obviously the fact that he turtled up instead of expanding meant that he was doing some sort of a push...

If you had seen the stargate with your ovie you could have had 4 queens by the time 2 voids and 2 phoenixes show up, and 4 queens > 2 void 2 phoenix

Also, phoenixes do almost no damage to corruptors and have the same range, so its irrelevant that they can outrun you.
Corruptors > Phoenix
Corruptors > Carriers
Mutalisks > Void Ray
tmzu
Profile Joined August 2010
58 Posts
February 20 2011 02:02 GMT
#24
I have the same problem, i played like 5 zvps today and the same shit happens. Corruptors are complete garbage and u need like 20 of them to do anything vs decent vr/pheonix numbers. Its fucking stupid how easy it is for protoss to make themselves unkillable for a while because of forcefields and cannons. I put like 2-3 spore crawlers at each base but they have like no range and are lucky to hit a pheonix twice before u lose half ur drones.
Hypemeup
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden2783 Posts
February 20 2011 02:21 GMT
#25
Early game get afew queens(more then 2 so he cant just lift both and destroy them), then hydras and go fucking kill him before he gets a deathball. Also if he goes mass air you can try to do ling runbys to nom afew probes, wont work against a 1basing toss tho.
Sek-Kuar
Profile Joined November 2010
Czech Republic593 Posts
February 20 2011 02:33 GMT
#26
IMO blizzard did a lot more mistakes in alfa version than what they believe - it wasnt just black hole, planet cracker and banshees with splash killing 20 marines in 3 seconds.


VR are much stronger than they should be - remember BW? We had scouts and wraiths, and it was ok - good anti air units totally useless against ground. Just like Vikings are.

And we had capital ships. Just like we have now in SC2.


However in SC2 we also have this "small capital ship" called Void Ray. And its problem, because no flying unit before BC or Carrier should be so versatile to deal same dmg to ground as to air. I dont think that before Blizzard realize this, remove VR and replace them with Banshee-like-VR and Viking-like-VR it cant be balanced.
Scientists finally discovered what's wrong with the female brain: On the left side, there is nothing right, and on the right side, there's nothing left. [http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/213948/1/DJVibrejtr/]
tmzu
Profile Joined August 2010
58 Posts
February 20 2011 02:39 GMT
#27
Ya its retarded, toss got all upgrades from BW while zerg gets shit units. Like basically we get slower hydras that cost more, a dumb replacement for the devour and mutas are the same. Makes total sense.
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-20 02:54:22
February 20 2011 02:48 GMT
#28
On February 20 2011 11:33 Sek-Kuar wrote:
IMO blizzard did a lot more mistakes in alfa version than what they believe - it wasnt just black hole, planet cracker and banshees with splash killing 20 marines in 3 seconds.


VR are much stronger than they should be - remember BW? We had scouts and wraiths, and it was ok - good anti air units totally useless against ground. Just like Vikings are.

And we had capital ships. Just like we have now in SC2.


However in SC2 we also have this "small capital ship" called Void Ray. And its problem, because no flying unit before BC or Carrier should be so versatile to deal same dmg to ground as to air. I dont think that before Blizzard realize this, remove VR and replace them with Banshee-like-VR and Viking-like-VR it cant be balanced.


The trade-off for the void ray's versatility and damage is its speed: that's why flux vanes was removed. There's a reason phoenix has graviton beam instead of AtG and a relatively low damage (twice, as well) unless fighting against light units such as the mutalisk. Mutalisks can kill a mineral line faster than phoenixes can (human limit).

This makes phoenixes have to basically constantly micro the phoenixes to do "something" because of the energy bar. However, the "savior" property of the phoenix's general weakness is its speed, which allows it to kill mutalisks.

This zerg, however, just FAILED to follow-up with the "counter". Now, he's raging for his loss simply because he did not respond/scout correctly, even though he had a huge lead.

On February 20 2011 11:39 tmzu wrote:
Ya its retarded, toss got all upgrades from BW while zerg gets shit units. Like basically we get slower hydras that cost more, a dumb replacement for the devour and mutas are the same. Makes total sense.


Colossi or die?
Forcefield or die?

We are the tech/spell race, and therefore, the best tier 3 race and that's why we're also the worst tier 1 race (excluding sentries, but many people consider sentries the "tech" unit since they allow defensive tactics, which means free to tech and are always one of the mid/end-game unit (which includes stalkers, colossi, and voids now).

us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
Fouf
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada34 Posts
February 20 2011 02:57 GMT
#29
Queens actually have a nice AA attack, and they can transfuse.. :o.
SlapMySalami
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1060 Posts
February 20 2011 03:03 GMT
#30
On February 20 2011 11:48 iChau wrote:

Colossi or die?
Forcefield or die?

We are the tech/spell race, and therefore, the best tier 3 race and that's why we're also the worst tier 1 race (excluding sentries, but many people consider sentries the "tech" unit since they allow defensive tactics, which means free to tech and are always one of the mid/end-game unit (which includes stalkers, colossi, and voids now).



4 gate and win? cannon rush and win? +1 timing push and win? your analogies are just as bogus

you are the timing/timing push race which is why you have chronoboost. i doubt blizzard made protoss with the notion that they will always have superior t3 to either race no matter what

if you can find me something from blizzard that says they are the t3 race and will always have superior t3 throughout the expansions i will eat your hat
marineking will u huk my bigtt1 ilu
Feb
Profile Joined December 2010
98 Posts
February 20 2011 03:09 GMT
#31
mutas counter voids, corruptors counter everything else. you should get at least 2 queens per hatch while getting your tech. hydras are also an option, but imo they kinda lock you into your base and make it hard to expand and counter. i would think you can also go infestor which could at least stall if you catch his army out of position.

basically the situation you posted sounds like you didn't scout effectively though, a single changeling probably would have helped you a lot.
SlapMySalami
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1060 Posts
February 20 2011 03:18 GMT
#32
On February 20 2011 12:09 Feb wrote:
mutas counter voids, corruptors counter everything else. you should get at least 2 queens per hatch while getting your tech. hydras are also an option, but imo they kinda lock you into your base and make it hard to expand and counter. i would think you can also go infestor which could at least stall if you catch his army out of position.

basically the situation you posted sounds like you didn't scout effectively though, a single changeling probably would have helped you a lot.


you got your units backwards queens keep you in your base
marineking will u huk my bigtt1 ilu
Offhand
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1869 Posts
February 20 2011 03:25 GMT
#33
On February 19 2011 21:43 Allscorpion wrote:
Hydras, infestors, queens, mutas, corruptors
All of the above and good against air.


This is true. If you're getting one based with air, just pump queens.
tmzu
Profile Joined August 2010
58 Posts
February 20 2011 03:35 GMT
#34
People keep saying mutas counter voidrays and corruptors for everything else but that just never works. Mutas and corruptors only fair well in large numbers and having both isnt viable.
parn
Profile Joined December 2010
France296 Posts
February 20 2011 03:51 GMT
#35
I think you should work on your play, we always do mistakes, don't blame the game, it's still young. Why don't you take a look at day9 library?

Hope it helped
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
February 20 2011 03:55 GMT
#36
If they are going MASS air, go Corrupter/Hydra. If they are going Colli/Air (no gateway units) get only Corrupters, wipe our their army and replenish with Roaches and push. If they are going Air/Gateway/Colli, go Roach/Hydra/Corrupter/Queen
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