EPT[D] Hidden Expansion - Page 2
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Terminator(471)
United States243 Posts
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antz0r
Australia168 Posts
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Toxigen
United States390 Posts
Being a silver, when I see no natural being taken and I see an interestingly large amount of units, I get very suspicious. This is usually too late. This means he's already recouped his investment from the expansion (400 minerals + workers, probably built up over time without maynarding if there was a contain). Also, if he has an "interesting large amount of units," you probably can't stop the expo head-on and are now behind and need to get back in the game through harassment/drops. You should be checking expansions much more often. As a Zerg, most of how I respond depends on when I see my opponent expand. Denying expansions is the surest way to win macro games. Think about it this way -- for the cost of a zergling/marine/probe, you could set yourself up for a huge advantage. All you need to do is scout it. Conversely, not scouting it could lead to a macro loss. Small price to pay for an opportunity for such a huge advantage, in my opinion, and all it requires is ~50 minerals and a couple extra APM. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
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Kakisho
United States240 Posts
In similar situations, I often use "hidden expansions" not to hopefully get an advantage before he kills it, but to force him to go kill it, allowing you to move in. It would equivalent to putting a nydus worm in one end of his base and attacking at his front. The worm doesn't neccesarily have to have guys in it (like a command center without workers mining) but if the opponent sees it capable of giving you the advantage (guys could come out of a nydus at any time, workers can be sent to the minerals at anytime) then he has to kill it before it gives you the advantage. Especially as Zerg, if you're putting a lot of agro on a 4 person map (with plenty or resources) I slowly keep adding on expansions. After my third, i put one on the other end of the map, on his side, that's somewhat far from the main area of fighting. If he goes to take it out, then I pressure him further, at the front. In a way, by putting a expo far away, it puts a contain on him, since it causes him to have to travel a longer distance to take it out, and that distance is in the opposite direction of you main and natural. | ||
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Mimic
Russian Federation76 Posts
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Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
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Ender79
United States8 Posts
On February 03 2011 10:33 VeryAverage wrote: Being a silver, when I see no natural being taken and I see an interestingly large amount of units, I get very suspicious. I actually just played a TvP on Shakuras where I felt pretty comfortable because I assumed my opponent was 1 basing. I saw 3 colossi and just a few too many stalkers. Needless to say, one drop ship found a nexus at the bottom left expo which was quickly taken care of. If you have the means and ability to defend it, go for it. And did you win? If you felt comfortable one-basing because you thought he was as well, and he had the base long enough that you got suspicious just seeing his unit count was bigger than expected for a single base, it could have been the case in the OP where even though you killed the hidden expansion, it had already paid for itself... | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
Relying on hidden expos too often can be pretty dangerous. If you're denying your opponent the ability to scout, you're safe to expand anywhere. Hidden or not, they still have to scout to know what's happening. Denying the scouting is easier when the base is in an easier to defend location. To me, it's a form of gambling on this shittiness of your opponent. Basically, if they're bad, you win, they complain your race is imba, and nobody improves. If they're good, they scout it, kill it and you're left wishing you'd have expanded to an easier to defend location. Anything your opponent doesn't see is hidden. Inconveniencing yourself on a gamble which only works on people who don't scout is a recipe for long-term fail as you get to higher leagues. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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Tekst
United States14 Posts
On February 04 2011 02:55 Piledriver wrote: I cant believe, no one has said this yet, but its almost impossible to do a probe transfer to hidden expansions (if you do the probe transfer, most likely you will get caught), causing them to be horribly saturated, and so they take much longer than normal expansions to reach even a decent amount of saturation, and so generally you are left with an oversaturated main and an anemic expansion, which pays for itself much later than normal. I feel like it can work out pretty well with Terran though. Mules are wonderful friends. [: Of course, still later than usual, but with the power of mules, it isn't too bad. Especially with hidden golds. | ||
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flyingbangus
United States121 Posts
You can get away with it in bronze, silver, and gold.....but consistent scouting and decent macro is enough to get you out of those leagues anyway. I do remember, though, my good 'ol silver league days when Scrap Station is almost an auto-win for me. 14 hatching onto the gold base was so much fun! Z opponents were rare back then and easily dealt with ling-bling. Protoss was easily dealt with mass speedling into muta-ling into ultra-ling. Terrans didn't even know what an expansion was LOL. It was all a matter of crushing their first wave of MM, then you can pretty easily contain them on that one base, and even use THEIR nat as your 3rd! | ||
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TrinitySC
101 Posts
It's an unnecessary risk. The only occasions that I can think of where they would be a good idea is: 1. You're really far behind and you need whatever chance you can get of coming back 2. You're doing some early-game super-aggressive contain and throw up an expo close to his base if you're zerg Even still, they sound like losing strategies. What flyingbangus said a post above is pretty much all true. Hidden expos are hard to defend and won't hidden stay for very long if your opponent isn't terrible; you're better off just taking your nat. | ||
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Tantaburs
Canada1825 Posts
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bramapanzer
83 Posts
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Shado.
United States187 Posts
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Proto_Protoss
United States495 Posts
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sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
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P0ckets
United States430 Posts
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santoki
United States107 Posts
usually ladder = standard play for me. and really should be | ||
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