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[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 33

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Eyshoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Mexico19 Posts
February 03 2011 15:54 GMT
#641
lol the 1st time he did to me that i stopped him that guy will ALWAYS but ALWAYS cheese he dosent know how to macro or anything like that he plays like that all his games soo i owned him 3-0 on a b05 soo dont loose ur head, a good way tyo counter any cheese is always scouting on right time soo SCOUT SCOUT!!
SC2 Latin American Player
Anwyn
Profile Joined September 2010
8 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 16:08:26
February 03 2011 16:06 GMT
#642
I think i found a way to stop this without canons and with an opening that is pretty much standart.

Im a 3100~ protoss player for wathever is worth.

9 Pylon and scout
12 Gateway
15 Gas
16 Pylon
17 Cyber

Then when minerals allow it without cutting much in probes get another gateway and then the other gas, when the core is finished, start producing non stop stalkers with chronobust and add another gateway, and start warpgates but dont use chrono on it. When you first stalker is out, you can try to kill his overlord or/and the first 2 lings that are used to chase your scouting probe. By the time his roaches get to your ramp, you probably have 3 salkers plus 2 more building, its important to block yourself complety, so the lings can't enter. After this, if they cant destroy your wall is GG.

Hope it helps.
Amber[LighT]
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States5078 Posts
February 03 2011 16:07 GMT
#643
On February 04 2011 01:06 Anwyn wrote:
I think i found a way to stop this without canons and with an opening that is pretty much standart.

Im a 3100~ protoss player for wathever is worth.

9 Pylon and scout
12 Gateway
15 Gas
16 Pylon
17 Cyber

Then when minerals allow it get another gateway and then the other gas, when the core is finished, start producing non stop stalkers with chronobust and add another gateway, and start warpgates but dont use chrono on it. When you first stalker is out, you can try to kill his overlord or/and the first 2 lings that are used to chase your scouting probe. By the time his roaches get to your ramp, you probably have 3 salkers plus 2 more building, its important to block yourself complety, so the lings can enter. After this, if they cant destroy your wall is GG.

Hope it helps.


A replay would probably be more worthwhile to post than your rank...
"We have unfinished business, I and he."
Anwyn
Profile Joined September 2010
8 Posts
February 03 2011 16:09 GMT
#644
On February 04 2011 01:07 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2011 01:06 Anwyn wrote:
I think i found a way to stop this without canons and with an opening that is pretty much standart.

Im a 3100~ protoss player for wathever is worth.

9 Pylon and scout
12 Gateway
15 Gas
16 Pylon
17 Cyber

Then when minerals allow it get another gateway and then the other gas, when the core is finished, start producing non stop stalkers with chronobust and add another gateway, and start warpgates but dont use chrono on it. When you first stalker is out, you can try to kill his overlord or/and the first 2 lings that are used to chase your scouting probe. By the time his roaches get to your ramp, you probably have 3 salkers plus 2 more building, its important to block yourself complety, so the lings can enter. After this, if they cant destroy your wall is GG.

Hope it helps.


A replay would probably be more worthwhile to post than your rank...


I will try to post a replay when i get home.
ZeaLL
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada53 Posts
February 03 2011 16:29 GMT
#645
WOW this is insane!
Awaken my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright. Know that I am the Overmind; the eternal will of the Swarm, and that you have been created to serve me.
seanisgrand
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1039 Posts
February 03 2011 17:09 GMT
#646
This build is a bitch on blistering sands. Time to adjust my thumbs.
This is well below quality expected of a post in any forum. -Empyrean
Sajuuk7
Profile Joined November 2010
134 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 17:22:11
February 03 2011 17:16 GMT
#647
This game was facepalm from the beginning.
Protoss: "I wonder if you have the balls to rush me again."
Zerg: "I wonder if you have the balls to only build one gateway and no cannons."

[image loading]

5.5 Minute Mark: 16 Speedlings, 3 Roaches VS 1 Zealot, 2 Sentries
In the future, take a deep breath and watch the replay yourself with an open mind.
You could have chrono'd more units, or built a cannon, or built another gateway sooner, or had better scouting, etc, etc.

In other news:
Your bad manners and negativity have made this thread long and bitter.
You:
"This is impossible to stop."
"I have never cried imbalance... but.. what the hell, come on."
"if u have to blindly forge and put cannons on top of ur ramp there is something wrong with the matchup."

TL-goers:
"This is the last person i expected to see write this sort of thread.."
"Wait is this a joke or something? This is a standard 5RR, except he cut some roaches and added more lings..."
"He obviously isn't looking for help, he's looking for sympathy.
Just let the thread die, every suggestion has already been made."

Your replies:
"ur not very high rated are u? t.t"
"some of u must not watch the replays very carefully."
"some of u guys... just give unbelievable advice. like none of it would work in time to stop this. "
"im not being high and mighty. im just good enough at the game to know what im talking about."
"im sorry but a lot of u are completely clueless, like absolutely clueless. u play this guy and u would get absolutely raped to pieces yet u say how easy this is to stop, lol"
"9 out of 10 suggestions have been absolutely retarded"
"did u even read the chat? the guy talking about how much he wins?"
"Uh, the entire point of the thread was me asking for help. And no, no I haven't. I actually haven't insulted anyone. Except for you, you're a tool."

Almost every post you wrote was incredibly negative, derogatory, and sometimes even straight up lies:
I also have done very little bitching or moaning, pretty much only one moan and it was in the OP.

And then you have the audacity to try to end the thread with:
anyways it's stoppable yes. but it's ridiculously ridiculously powerful.


This sounds just like the kind of stuff that is on the battlenet forums everyday...

TL-Goer:
Not to offend but I expected better manners from someone with a liquid tag

Your reply back:
where did I have bad manners?

You again... contradicting yourself some more:
god, why are people so full of shit. how dare i post this and then argue a position. why am i getting so much shit for this from random people who probably are terrible at the game anyways


Hey, TL Mods, I hope you read this and think twice about who has a TL tag, and about who should get a warning/ban/whatever: the inciter of flame, or people caught in fire.

EDIT: P.S. Please lock this thread.
OmNomSpy
Profile Joined August 2010
United States68 Posts
February 03 2011 17:24 GMT
#648
Here's a quick replay of this opener. I say opener because you can expand and drone up if you do good damage.

I tried to trick the Protoss into thinking I wanted an expansion while I built a roach warren, which was slightly delayed in doing so. I got 4 roaches and pushed out immediately, rallying speedlings until 34 supply before building an expo.

Killing his army and just a few probes gave me the time I needed to drone up past his probe count. Rest of the game was EZ PZ

[image loading]
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 17:58:33
February 03 2011 17:34 GMT
#649
On February 03 2011 11:37 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2011 11:35 Nemara wrote:
On February 03 2011 11:11 dingoman wrote:
Travis is a fucking idiot who can't even type properly. Just build cannons like the people have said. Send a scouting probe. Who cares if it dies? Zerg drones die all the time to Stalkers or Marines.

Thing is, had he just chrono boosted out his sentries, he'd been able to chain ff while upgrading warpgate tech and then he could've kept on force fielding. Its very holdable without canons, atleast on maps with small ramps. And btw, if a zerg is 1 base, you should ALWAYS sac a probe to scout him, especially if you know he's capable of doing an all-in like that one.


if i chronoboosted sentries before i saw the roaches yeah that'd work, but i have to be chronoboosting them every time instead of warpgate. after playing vs it some more I think it's quite easy to hold if you scout it (which I now know to do), then just get a 2nd gate blocking ur ramp (so gate/core/gate wall), then start chronoboosting stalkers after ur sentry. quite an easy hold if u do that

I absolutely do not think forge + cannons are optimal at all, I think its a very poor way to respond.

A friend and I worked on this about 10 games last night (hes zerg). I was able to hold it with decent success.. its really all about the stalkers. I think you're right... best success is to fully gateway block, get stalkers, etc. Since you already have a second gas you can transition to 4 gates with blink (that build Nazgul brought back briefly at MLG) or even 3 gate blink pressure with an expansion knowing hydras are delayed and his economy is too behind to produce enough lings AND drone. I think the 4 gate with blink option because I really dont think they could hold that off and why give them a chance to get back in the game? If you protoss' reading this remember, that 4 gate blink build beats like 90% of zerg builds when you're on even footing... it requires a very specific response from the zerg.... a response that just isn't possible with that shitty of an economy.

Blink obviously allows you to save a building when you push out as well. I think if they saw your wall off and went home with a ton of units instead of forcing the issue, maybe 3 gate into expand, but if they proceed with the all-in and you hold it off.. just go 4 gates with blink and secure the win. I suppose a normal 4 gate could work too but i feel like blink adds insurance and a transition into a tech tree that is good in every PvZ if shit gets a little crazy


edit: I should clarify, I pulled probes to defeat the non-wallin attempts. checking the replays it put us on even workers when i did this. just fyi.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
February 03 2011 18:39 GMT
#650
i'll take my "bad attitude" and stop posting on the strategy forums with it, everyone will be better off that way. I didn't want to tiptoe around a bunch of clueless people. and guess what, that's not an insult, it's just the truth. there's a reason very few top players bother posting here and it's because they don't want to argue with a bunch of clueless people, many of whom want to fight about shit that doesn't even have to do with the game.

im serious, too. im not gonna post in the strategy forum anymore. that way I won't be rude to people who 1.) were completely wrong and 2.) were actually rude to me.

goodbye
Velocirapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States983 Posts
February 03 2011 18:40 GMT
#651
I hate to say it but I think that dealing with rushes like this are going to become a way of life for protoss. Our early game units are so terrible that we have to use FF to even have a chance before warpgate research finishes. And as the other races find ways to negate that advantage (such as the clever overlord placement and roaches in this replay) toss will just have to resort to more and more extreme measures. If toss gets to the point where on any map with less than 16 bases it needs to blind forge/cannon/complete wall... it will be a sad day indeed. Although i am confident Blizzard will step in before that.
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
February 03 2011 18:49 GMT
#652
On February 04 2011 03:39 travis wrote:
i'll take my "bad attitude" and stop posting on the strategy forums with it, everyone will be better off that way. I didn't want to tiptoe around a bunch of clueless people. and guess what, that's not an insult, it's just the truth. there's a reason very few top players bother posting here and it's because they don't want to argue with a bunch of clueless people, many of whom want to fight about shit that doesn't even have to do with the game.

im serious, too. im not gonna post in the strategy forum anymore. that way I won't be rude to people who 1.) were completely wrong and 2.) were actually rude to me.

goodbye


Regardless of the clueless people in here, and I admit there's many, you still did get legitimate solutions to your build, the process of getting there might have been shitty, but don't you think the way the thread was made had something to do with that? I hope you post again, you're a legitimate good Protoss.
No_eL
Profile Joined July 2007
Chile1438 Posts
February 03 2011 18:49 GMT
#653
On February 04 2011 03:39 travis wrote:
i'll take my "bad attitude" and stop posting on the strategy forums with it, everyone will be better off that way. I didn't want to tiptoe around a bunch of clueless people. and guess what, that's not an insult, it's just the truth. there's a reason very few top players bother posting here and it's because they don't want to argue with a bunch of clueless people, many of whom want to fight about shit that doesn't even have to do with the game.

im serious, too. im not gonna post in the strategy forum anymore. that way I won't be rude to people who 1.) were completely wrong and 2.) were actually rude to me.

goodbye


good decision, i think its better for you and the fellow readers... u need to deep breathe, anb back to this forum in some days or weeks later...
Beat after beat i will become stronger.
Aristotle7
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States120 Posts
February 03 2011 18:52 GMT
#654
On February 04 2011 03:39 travis wrote:
I didn't want to tiptoe around a bunch of clueless people. and guess what, that's not an insult,

Don't hate bro, it's still an insult.

I'm glad Zerg finally has something close to an early pressure. At least, Protoss cant be greedy as hell anymore. Only 2 units by 5:00 should always die to an allin. It's that simple; the game makes sense now. It brings joyful tears to my Zerg eyes.
Master Terran on NA
roymarthyup
Profile Joined April 2010
1442 Posts
February 03 2011 18:55 GMT
#655
i think the best way to do this strategy is to proxy the roach warren with a proxy hatch which costs 75 minerals


to make up for the 75 mineral loss and still allow you to get those first quick 2 zerglings after the pool to deny scouting, you put 2 drones on gas instead of 3 which pays for the lost 75 minerals. this will give you slightly slower lingspeed but it wont matter thaat much

next, after you start lingspeed you put 3 drones on gas until you have 50gas then you take all drones off gas and put on minerals

instead of getting 3 roaches, you only get 2 roaches. thats all you really need because you combine those 2 roaches with the 2 original lings to attack the blocking zealot


with this strategy you should be knocking on the protoss door with 2 roaches+2lings (instead of 3+2lings) at 5 and you should be knocking on the protoss door with 2 roaches + 20 speedlings (instead of 3 roaches + 20 speedlings) at 5:30

this rush is pretty much exactly as powerful as the original build, but you proxy the warren making it unscoutable




the real true benefit of the warren in this build is it allows the 2 original larva to be turned into 4food of fighting units instead of 2food, and those fighting units are ranged and kill zealots well
FrostedMiniWeet
Profile Joined July 2009
United States636 Posts
February 03 2011 19:02 GMT
#656
On February 04 2011 03:55 roymarthyup wrote:
i think the best way to do this strategy is to proxy the roach warren with a proxy hatch which costs 75 minerals


to make up for the 75 mineral loss and still allow you to get those first quick 2 zerglings after the pool to deny scouting, you put 2 drones on gas instead of 3 which pays for the lost 75 minerals. this will give you slightly slower lingspeed but it wont matter thaat much

next, after you start lingspeed you put 3 drones on gas until you have 50gas then you take all drones off gas and put on minerals

instead of getting 3 roaches, you only get 2 roaches. thats all you really need because you combine those 2 roaches with the 2 original lings to attack the blocking zealot


with this strategy you should be knocking on the protoss door with 2 roaches+2lings (instead of 3+2lings) at 5 and you should be knocking on the protoss door with 2 roaches + 20 speedlings (instead of 3 roaches + 20 speedlings) at 5:30

this rush is pretty much exactly as powerful as the original build, but you proxy the warren making it unscoutable




the real true benefit of the warren in this build is it allows the 2 original larva to be turned into 4food of fighting units instead of 2food, and those fighting units are ranged and kill zealots well


Saving up 300 minerals delays the warren pretty significantly... This build is a timing attack before WG finishes.. if you delay any part of it, its no longer a timing attack, its just bad.
SpaceYeti
Profile Joined June 2010
United States723 Posts
February 03 2011 19:08 GMT
#657
Wow, what started as an interesting thread on an aggressive ZvP all in quickly deteriorated into severe juvenile flaming and one of the worst threads on this site.

Way to go guys.

I think this thread could have ended after Darkforce's excellent advice.
Behavior is a function of its consequences.
onmach
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1241 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 19:14:24
February 03 2011 19:09 GMT
#658
I tried this three times last night.

The first protoss 2 gated and I absolutely crushed him with roach ling on steppes in under six minutes.

The second guy went for a gateway/forge, and I decided to abandon it before I spent any money on units and ended up winning in the long game with muta ling.

The other time was on metal, and I got my overlord sniped by a chronoed out stalker above his ledge. That put a pretty fast end to this rush, and I think the same opening would have worked for travis because there is no cover for the overlord and no units to kill the stalker with.

I think on steppes I'm going to rotate this into my primary build, and possibly also on delta quadrant. That's because I have a 33% win rate on both maps and this seems to have a much better win rate when there is overlord cover.
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 19:18:14
February 03 2011 19:16 GMT
#659
On February 04 2011 03:39 travis wrote:
i'll take my "bad attitude" and stop posting on the strategy forums with it, everyone will be better off that way. I didn't want to tiptoe around a bunch of clueless people. and guess what, that's not an insult, it's just the truth. there's a reason very few top players bother posting here and it's because they don't want to argue with a bunch of clueless people, many of whom want to fight about shit that doesn't even have to do with the game.

im serious, too. im not gonna post in the strategy forum anymore. that way I won't be rude to people who 1.) were completely wrong and 2.) were actually rude to me.

goodbye


Then why do you bother posting in the strategy forum knowing that most "top players" don't bother posting ? I don't know if people here are masters or gold level and frankly i don't think it matters. There are good advices and bad advices . You can replay to advices you think are usefull and don't replay to advices that are bad or at least not in a negative way . When you ask for help you don't need to be all superior like and bash on people who are trying to help you regardless of their knowledge of the game ...
Kanaduh
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada16 Posts
February 03 2011 19:27 GMT
#660
On February 04 2011 02:16 Sajuuk7 wrote:
This game was facepalm from the beginning.
Protoss: "I wonder if you have the balls to rush me again."
Zerg: "I wonder if you have the balls to only build one gateway and no cannons."

[image loading]

5.5 Minute Mark: 16 Speedlings, 3 Roaches VS 1 Zealot, 2 Sentries
In the future, take a deep breath and watch the replay yourself with an open mind.
You could have chrono'd more units, or built a cannon, or built another gateway sooner, or had better scouting, etc, etc.

In other news:
Your bad manners and negativity have made this thread long and bitter.
You:
Show nested quote +
"This is impossible to stop."
"I have never cried imbalance... but.. what the hell, come on."
"if u have to blindly forge and put cannons on top of ur ramp there is something wrong with the matchup."

TL-goers:
Show nested quote +
"This is the last person i expected to see write this sort of thread.."
"Wait is this a joke or something? This is a standard 5RR, except he cut some roaches and added more lings..."
"He obviously isn't looking for help, he's looking for sympathy.
Just let the thread die, every suggestion has already been made."

Your replies:
Show nested quote +
"ur not very high rated are u? t.t"
"some of u must not watch the replays very carefully."
"some of u guys... just give unbelievable advice. like none of it would work in time to stop this. "
"im not being high and mighty. im just good enough at the game to know what im talking about."
"im sorry but a lot of u are completely clueless, like absolutely clueless. u play this guy and u would get absolutely raped to pieces yet u say how easy this is to stop, lol"
"9 out of 10 suggestions have been absolutely retarded"
"did u even read the chat? the guy talking about how much he wins?"
"Uh, the entire point of the thread was me asking for help. And no, no I haven't. I actually haven't insulted anyone. Except for you, you're a tool."

Almost every post you wrote was incredibly negative, derogatory, and sometimes even straight up lies:
Show nested quote +
I also have done very little bitching or moaning, pretty much only one moan and it was in the OP.

And then you have the audacity to try to end the thread with:
Show nested quote +
anyways it's stoppable yes. but it's ridiculously ridiculously powerful.


This sounds just like the kind of stuff that is on the battlenet forums everyday...

TL-Goer:
Show nested quote +
Not to offend but I expected better manners from someone with a liquid tag

Your reply back:
Show nested quote +
where did I have bad manners?

You again... contradicting yourself some more:
Show nested quote +
god, why are people so full of shit. how dare i post this and then argue a position. why am i getting so much shit for this from random people who probably are terrible at the game anyways


Hey, TL Mods, I hope you read this and think twice about who has a TL tag, and about who should get a warning/ban/whatever: the inciter of flame, or people caught in fire.

EDIT: P.S. Please lock this thread.


This is the best post of this thread.

I 100% agree, and I highly suggest everyone including Travis read it again.

I haven't been on TL for a very long time, and I don't really know who this Travis person is, or what his his history is in this community; but i think a lot of regular posters would have been warned/banned by now if we said some of the exact same things he has said in this thread.

I actually watched some of the replays posted in response to this, and some of the strategies and builds were actually quite effective at beating that zerg all-in. Anyways, to me it's just another zerg one base all-in that is very powerful against a protoss player who doesn't respond properly. Either way, this thread was ruined by the very ridiculously poor manners and illogical posts by Travis.
spiral out
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