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On February 03 2011 10:50 Conrose wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 09:16 roymarthyup wrote:
in the replay the zerg has 3 roaches and 24 speedlings at the enemy protoss base at 5:30
i have come to the conclusion that this build is COMPLETELY UNBEATABLE by protoss unless he does 1 of 2 things right when he scouts the roach warren
1) make cannons in time. most toss wont do this, and there are options for the zerg to baneling bust this properly
2) completely wall with 4gates quickly upon scouting this build which stops the lings from coming in because they have to destroy a gateway first while the stalkers shoot at them
most protoss will not do any of those 2 things, meaning for all the zergs out there if you copy the build in the replay it will give you FREE WINS against EVERY PROTOSS PLAYER (even master protoss players) until it catches on that the above are the 2 counters
and i dont even think cannons properly counter this. when a zerg scouts forge+cannon he can use the next inject on 4 drones and get 2gas baneling bust which probably will beat the cannons If you go with the cannon counter, couldn't you warp Stalkers in front of the Cannons to counter the looming Baneling Bust?
Well, actually it's hard to baneling bust a proper sim wall. However, the massive amount of units will eventually run it over and there is almost always a weak spot in the wall, whether it's the zealot or a pylon. Roaches could always attack from below while the speedlings/banelings just rampage the wall.
Once that wall goes down it's basically game-over. The next reinforcements will seal the deal even if you somehow defend the 1st attack by sacrificing probes.
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Travis is a fucking idiot who can't even type properly. Just build cannons like the people have said. Send a scouting probe. Who cares if it dies? Zerg drones die all the time to Stalkers or Marines.
Anyway, this strategy is not unstoppable. If it's so good then people would've been successful with it in major tournaments.
It's an all-in because he's still a one-base Zerg with a weak economy against a Protoss with an average economy.
On February 03 2011 04:46 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 04:42 Dubz wrote:
Your units are not on hold position zerglings have no trouble running thru two sentries and a zealot not even on hold position oh i didn't realize they had to be on hold position. i don't understand the basis for that. why are opponents units able to push my units out of the way, that doesn't seem like a good aspect to the game at all -.-
This is his attitude through out the entire thread. If he doesn't like it then he either won't play it or just blames the game.
On February 02 2011 17:00 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 16:58 AKA. wrote:
Why is it unreasonable to sac a probe to scout? zerg is expected to regularly sac OL's worth twice as much, terran at least pays a price for a scan, and you are not willing to sac one probe to avert disaster?! my main problem with doing that is that the probe can be super useful later on, and if he gets lings outside ur ramp quick enough ur never gonna be able to get another probe out. but i suppose u could just send a 2nd probe out before lings get there. also as i said before i kinda backtracked, i suppose it's not that unreasonable
It's just 50 fucking minerals. You sound like a retarded baby.
I'll probably get warned or even banned by moderators but Travis just pissed me off with his stupid posts.
User was temp banned for this post.
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excuse me dingoman, what's your problem? I am not an idiot and I can type just fine.
and clearly the strategy isn't unstoppable, I never said it was unstoppable, the entire point of the thread was to discuss how to stop it. I may be a whiner sometimes but I am actually a really nice guy and I try hard to never make things personal and to treat any specific person I am talking to with respect, unlike some people.
then u quote a completely normal reply to something and say it's "my attitude throughout the entire thread." what is my attitude, what the hell are you even talking about. it's wrong for me to think it's weird that my opponents units can literally run right through my units, like right through them? I can't possibly be the only person who thinks that's really silly.
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On February 03 2011 11:11 dingoman wrote:
Travis is a fucking idiot who can't even type properly. Just build cannons like the people have said. Send a scouting probe. Who cares if it dies? Zerg drones die all the time to Stalkers or Marines.
Thing is, had he just chrono boosted out his sentries, he'd been able to chain ff while upgrading warpgate tech and then he could've kept on force fielding. Its very holdable without canons, atleast on maps with small ramps. And btw, if a zerg is 1 base, you should ALWAYS sac a probe to scout him, especially if you know he's capable of doing an all-in like that one.
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On February 03 2011 11:35 Nemara wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:11 dingoman wrote:
Travis is a fucking idiot who can't even type properly. Just build cannons like the people have said. Send a scouting probe. Who cares if it dies? Zerg drones die all the time to Stalkers or Marines.
Thing is, had he just chrono boosted out his sentries, he'd been able to chain ff while upgrading warpgate tech and then he could've kept on force fielding. Its very holdable without canons, atleast on maps with small ramps. And btw, if a zerg is 1 base, you should ALWAYS sac a probe to scout him, especially if you know he's capable of doing an all-in like that one.
if i chronoboosted sentries before i saw the roaches yeah that'd work, but i have to be chronoboosting them every time instead of warpgate. after playing vs it some more I think it's quite easy to hold if you scout it (which I now know to do), then just get a 2nd gate blocking ur ramp (so gate/core/gate wall), then start chronoboosting stalkers after ur sentry. quite an easy hold if u do that
I absolutely do not think forge + cannons are optimal at all, I think its a very poor way to respond.
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On February 03 2011 11:37 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:35 Nemara wrote:On February 03 2011 11:11 dingoman wrote:
Travis is a fucking idiot who can't even type properly. Just build cannons like the people have said. Send a scouting probe. Who cares if it dies? Zerg drones die all the time to Stalkers or Marines.
Thing is, had he just chrono boosted out his sentries, he'd been able to chain ff while upgrading warpgate tech and then he could've kept on force fielding. Its very holdable without canons, atleast on maps with small ramps. And btw, if a zerg is 1 base, you should ALWAYS sac a probe to scout him, especially if you know he's capable of doing an all-in like that one. if i chronoboosted sentries before i saw the roaches yeah that'd work, but i have to be chronoboosting them every time instead of warpgate. after playing vs it some more I think it's quite easy to hold if you scout it (which I now know to do), then just get a 2nd gate blocking ur ramp (so gate/core/gate wall), then start chronoboosting stalkers after ur sentry. quite an easy hold if u do that I absolutely do not think forge + cannons are optimal at all, I think its a very poor way to respond.
To be quite frank your posting attitude in this thread has been somewhat along the lines of giving the impression "this is so retardedly strong, game is broken, don't see how it can be stopped when I know it's coming," when your OP in and of itself was absolutely awful (go reread it, you don't even describe how it's even done, the build order, how you responded, ANYTHING) and all the advice is responded to overly negatively, even though I admit a ton of it was pretty bad.
It's really hard to differentiate the thread you made from someone who just came from BNET and started a nondescriptive thread, in my opinion. The only difference is you're actually at masters level as opposed to Plat or something.
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On February 03 2011 11:33 travis wrote:
excuse me dingoman, what's your problem? I am not an idiot and I can type just fine.
and clearly the strategy isn't unstoppable, I never said it was unstoppable, the entire point of the thread was to discuss how to stop it. I may be a whiner sometimes but I am actually a really nice guy and I try hard to never make things personal and to treat any specific person I am talking to with respect, unlike some people.
then u quote a completely normal reply to something and say it's "my attitude throughout the entire thread." what is my attitude, what the hell are you even talking about. it's wrong for me to think it's weird that my opponents units can literally run right through my units, like right through them? I can't possibly be the only person who thinks that's really silly.
On February 03 2011 03:38 travis wrote:
I gotta say I find it funny that people keep telling me I played badly vs it or that it is easy to stop (which obviously I could play better after discussing some theory, and you're right I didn't want to alter my build drastically if I could help it). And yet zerg after zerg comes in saying that they try it and they win over and over with it.
It's pretty easy to criticize other people huh. I guess tt1 and cruncher suck too. It's like the sensationalist title (which was the point) is a calling for assholes to come in and criticize a player who's better than them anyways. I know I suck but jesus 98% of you suck worse.
It's just a build that requires drastic action as far as modifying your build, and I didn't take drastic enough action, and now I know better.
On February 02 2011 13:23 travis wrote:ur not very high rated are u? t.tit's about the timing. notice i make 2 sentries asap, i've used my gateway constantly, and i still can't hold it. let's be honest, had i chronoboosted units out of the gateway i still wouldn't be able to stop it. that should be clear from the replay
On February 02 2011 14:45 travis wrote:
im sorry but a lot of u are completely clueless, like absolutely clueless. u play this guy and u would get absolutely raped to pieces yet u say how easy this is to stop, lol
did u even read the chat? the guy talking about how much he wins? im sure he is serious and u know what, he's playing players better than u guys who are saying how easy this is to stop in every single one of those
You are very bad at asking for advice my friend. Don't act like you treat people with respect.
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On February 03 2011 11:45 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:37 travis wrote:On February 03 2011 11:35 Nemara wrote:On February 03 2011 11:11 dingoman wrote:
Travis is a fucking idiot who can't even type properly. Just build cannons like the people have said. Send a scouting probe. Who cares if it dies? Zerg drones die all the time to Stalkers or Marines.
Thing is, had he just chrono boosted out his sentries, he'd been able to chain ff while upgrading warpgate tech and then he could've kept on force fielding. Its very holdable without canons, atleast on maps with small ramps. And btw, if a zerg is 1 base, you should ALWAYS sac a probe to scout him, especially if you know he's capable of doing an all-in like that one. if i chronoboosted sentries before i saw the roaches yeah that'd work, but i have to be chronoboosting them every time instead of warpgate. after playing vs it some more I think it's quite easy to hold if you scout it (which I now know to do), then just get a 2nd gate blocking ur ramp (so gate/core/gate wall), then start chronoboosting stalkers after ur sentry. quite an easy hold if u do that I absolutely do not think forge + cannons are optimal at all, I think its a very poor way to respond. To be quite frank your posting attitude in this thread has been somewhat along the lines of giving the impression "this is so retardedly strong, game is broken, don't see how it can be stopped when I know it's coming," when your OP in and of itself was absolutely awful (go reread it, you don't even describe how it's even done, the build order, how you responded, ANYTHING) and all the advice is responded to overly negatively, even though I admit a ton of it was pretty bad. It's really hard to differentiate the thread you made from someone who just came from BNET and started a nondescriptive thread, in my opinion. The only difference is you're actually at masters level as opposed to Plat or something.
well im sorry, clearly I was kind of tilted. jesus christ though it's not that big of a deal, have u actually read my posts in this thread? I didn't respond to all the advice overly negatively, i was negative towards the REALLY bad REALLY clueless advice and I wasn't even negative towards all of that. should we actually go through and quote my replies so we can discuss them? since this issue apparently needs to be a focus of this thread?
as soon as someone actually got to the root of the issue (scouting the timing and responding accordingly at that moment), I admitted it was good advice and that it should work. I am so sorry I wasn't more pleasant to the dozens of people who had no clue what they were talking about whatsoever.
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On February 03 2011 11:37 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:35 Nemara wrote:On February 03 2011 11:11 dingoman wrote:
Travis is a fucking idiot who can't even type properly. Just build cannons like the people have said. Send a scouting probe. Who cares if it dies? Zerg drones die all the time to Stalkers or Marines.
Thing is, had he just chrono boosted out his sentries, he'd been able to chain ff while upgrading warpgate tech and then he could've kept on force fielding. Its very holdable without canons, atleast on maps with small ramps. And btw, if a zerg is 1 base, you should ALWAYS sac a probe to scout him, especially if you know he's capable of doing an all-in like that one. if i chronoboosted sentries before i saw the roaches yeah that'd work, but i have to be chronoboosting them every time instead of warpgate. after playing vs it some more I think it's quite easy to hold if you scout it (which I now know to do), then just get a 2nd gate blocking ur ramp (so gate/core/gate wall), then start chronoboosting stalkers after ur sentry. quite an easy hold if u do that I absolutely do not think forge + cannons are optimal at all, I think its a very poor way to respond.
I made post way back, but this is how I started walling off to allow for stopping 1 base all in's if I scout them, and how to turn it into a normal wall after.
http://img64.imageshack.us/i/tosswallin.png/
Basically, build your core vertical with your first gateway, and then build a pylon right before zealot pops out of the gateway (you can afford it at like 70% completion) for a normal wall-in. Or, just use another gateway in the 3x3 spot to block cheeze. Safest wall I have come up with period for the top of a ramp. Something small, but it helps 
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crib, everything i said there was EXACTLY RIGHT.
lets look through the bolded words
"I know I suck but jesus 98% of you suck worse."
are you arguing that that ISNT the case? I am SURE it's the case, it's simple statistics. How is that disrespectful at all???? Please explain
"ur not very high rated are u? t.t"
again, how is this disrespectful? if someone says
"LOL is this a joke u have no clue what you are talking about" when in fact THEY have no clue what they are talking about, how is it disrespectful to call them out on it?
"im sorry but a lot of u are completely clueless, like absolutely clueless. u play this guy and u would get absolutely raped to pieces yet u say how easy this is to stop, lol"
again, explain how this statement of the truth that doesn't even target any specific person is disrespectful?
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On February 03 2011 11:51 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:45 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 03 2011 11:37 travis wrote:On February 03 2011 11:35 Nemara wrote:On February 03 2011 11:11 dingoman wrote:
Travis is a fucking idiot who can't even type properly. Just build cannons like the people have said. Send a scouting probe. Who cares if it dies? Zerg drones die all the time to Stalkers or Marines.
Thing is, had he just chrono boosted out his sentries, he'd been able to chain ff while upgrading warpgate tech and then he could've kept on force fielding. Its very holdable without canons, atleast on maps with small ramps. And btw, if a zerg is 1 base, you should ALWAYS sac a probe to scout him, especially if you know he's capable of doing an all-in like that one. if i chronoboosted sentries before i saw the roaches yeah that'd work, but i have to be chronoboosting them every time instead of warpgate. after playing vs it some more I think it's quite easy to hold if you scout it (which I now know to do), then just get a 2nd gate blocking ur ramp (so gate/core/gate wall), then start chronoboosting stalkers after ur sentry. quite an easy hold if u do that I absolutely do not think forge + cannons are optimal at all, I think its a very poor way to respond. To be quite frank your posting attitude in this thread has been somewhat along the lines of giving the impression "this is so retardedly strong, game is broken, don't see how it can be stopped when I know it's coming," when your OP in and of itself was absolutely awful (go reread it, you don't even describe how it's even done, the build order, how you responded, ANYTHING) and all the advice is responded to overly negatively, even though I admit a ton of it was pretty bad. It's really hard to differentiate the thread you made from someone who just came from BNET and started a nondescriptive thread, in my opinion. The only difference is you're actually at masters level as opposed to Plat or something. well im sorry, clearly I was kind of tilted. jesus christ though it's not that big of a deal, have u actually read my posts in this thread? I didn't respond to all the advice overly negatively, i was negative towards the REALLY bad REALLY clueless advice and I wasn't even negative towards all of that. should we actually go through and quote my replies so we can discuss them? since this issue apparently needs to be a focus of this thread? as soon as someone actually got to the root of the issue (scouting the timing and responding accordingly at that moment), I admitted it was good advice and that it should work. I am so sorry I wasn't more pleasant to the dozens of people who had no clue what they were talking about whatsoever.
I didn't say it was a massive deal, I just said it was the impression you kind of gave off. I've had my own share of being rude on this forum anyways, so I'm not exactly chastising you or anything.
Nonetheless, I'm sort of surprised you can't see how the above posts, regardless of the truth to them, are disrespectful. If I said you were ugly, even if it happened to be true, wouldn't mean it isn't disrespectful.
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On February 03 2011 11:59 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:51 travis wrote:On February 03 2011 11:45 FabledIntegral wrote:On February 03 2011 11:37 travis wrote:On February 03 2011 11:35 Nemara wrote:On February 03 2011 11:11 dingoman wrote:
Travis is a fucking idiot who can't even type properly. Just build cannons like the people have said. Send a scouting probe. Who cares if it dies? Zerg drones die all the time to Stalkers or Marines.
Thing is, had he just chrono boosted out his sentries, he'd been able to chain ff while upgrading warpgate tech and then he could've kept on force fielding. Its very holdable without canons, atleast on maps with small ramps. And btw, if a zerg is 1 base, you should ALWAYS sac a probe to scout him, especially if you know he's capable of doing an all-in like that one. if i chronoboosted sentries before i saw the roaches yeah that'd work, but i have to be chronoboosting them every time instead of warpgate. after playing vs it some more I think it's quite easy to hold if you scout it (which I now know to do), then just get a 2nd gate blocking ur ramp (so gate/core/gate wall), then start chronoboosting stalkers after ur sentry. quite an easy hold if u do that I absolutely do not think forge + cannons are optimal at all, I think its a very poor way to respond. To be quite frank your posting attitude in this thread has been somewhat along the lines of giving the impression "this is so retardedly strong, game is broken, don't see how it can be stopped when I know it's coming," when your OP in and of itself was absolutely awful (go reread it, you don't even describe how it's even done, the build order, how you responded, ANYTHING) and all the advice is responded to overly negatively, even though I admit a ton of it was pretty bad. It's really hard to differentiate the thread you made from someone who just came from BNET and started a nondescriptive thread, in my opinion. The only difference is you're actually at masters level as opposed to Plat or something. well im sorry, clearly I was kind of tilted. jesus christ though it's not that big of a deal, have u actually read my posts in this thread? I didn't respond to all the advice overly negatively, i was negative towards the REALLY bad REALLY clueless advice and I wasn't even negative towards all of that. should we actually go through and quote my replies so we can discuss them? since this issue apparently needs to be a focus of this thread? as soon as someone actually got to the root of the issue (scouting the timing and responding accordingly at that moment), I admitted it was good advice and that it should work. I am so sorry I wasn't more pleasant to the dozens of people who had no clue what they were talking about whatsoever. I didn't say it was a massive deal, I just said it was the impression you kind of gave off. I've had my own share of being rude on this forum anyways, so I'm not exactly chastising you or anything. Nonetheless, I'm sort of surprised you can't see how the above posts, regardless of the truth to them, are disrespectful. If I said you were ugly, even if it happened to be true, wouldn't mean it isn't disrespectful.
It wouldn't be disrespectful if it was in response to me giving you beauty advice. I don't go around telling people how bad they are at things I have no clue about. If I did I would absolutely deserve to be told "wtf man u have no clue what you're talking about".
And besides, calling someone ugly isn't at all comparable to saying "they aren't high rated". If one thinks it's comparable to call someone ugly vs call someone "low rated", they have some issues.
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i think that a CLOSE THREAD its the best choice for you and mods.
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I'd be totally fine with that though at the same time the thread could still be useful for a lot of people.
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If you found a solution, can you put it in the first post?
I was thinking of doing this build and keep getting gas to get banelings.
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On February 03 2011 10:56 iChau wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 10:50 Conrose wrote:On February 03 2011 09:16 roymarthyup wrote:
in the replay the zerg has 3 roaches and 24 speedlings at the enemy protoss base at 5:30
i have come to the conclusion that this build is COMPLETELY UNBEATABLE by protoss unless he does 1 of 2 things right when he scouts the roach warren
1) make cannons in time. most toss wont do this, and there are options for the zerg to baneling bust this properly
2) completely wall with 4gates quickly upon scouting this build which stops the lings from coming in because they have to destroy a gateway first while the stalkers shoot at them
most protoss will not do any of those 2 things, meaning for all the zergs out there if you copy the build in the replay it will give you FREE WINS against EVERY PROTOSS PLAYER (even master protoss players) until it catches on that the above are the 2 counters
and i dont even think cannons properly counter this. when a zerg scouts forge+cannon he can use the next inject on 4 drones and get 2gas baneling bust which probably will beat the cannons If you go with the cannon counter, couldn't you warp Stalkers in front of the Cannons to counter the looming Baneling Bust? Well, actually it's hard to baneling bust a proper sim wall. However, the massive amount of units will eventually run it over and there is almost always a weak spot in the wall, whether it's the zealot or a pylon. Roaches could always attack from below while the speedlings/banelings just rampage the wall. Once that wall goes down it's basically game-over. The next reinforcements will seal the deal even if you somehow defend the 1st attack by sacrificing probes.
I'm talking about using Stalkers to soak Baneling Hits and essentially serve as a wall for the wall. Sort of like placing Marauders or later a Thor in front of the Supply Depot of a wall when you scout a baneling's nest.
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god, i hate you guys... why do you post this cheesy strategy on TL! every fuking zerg in ladder are doing it now lol
ç_ç
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On February 03 2011 11:51 Gooey wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 11:37 travis wrote:On February 03 2011 11:35 Nemara wrote:On February 03 2011 11:11 dingoman wrote:
Travis is a fucking idiot who can't even type properly. Just build cannons like the people have said. Send a scouting probe. Who cares if it dies? Zerg drones die all the time to Stalkers or Marines.
Thing is, had he just chrono boosted out his sentries, he'd been able to chain ff while upgrading warpgate tech and then he could've kept on force fielding. Its very holdable without canons, atleast on maps with small ramps. And btw, if a zerg is 1 base, you should ALWAYS sac a probe to scout him, especially if you know he's capable of doing an all-in like that one. if i chronoboosted sentries before i saw the roaches yeah that'd work, but i have to be chronoboosting them every time instead of warpgate. after playing vs it some more I think it's quite easy to hold if you scout it (which I now know to do), then just get a 2nd gate blocking ur ramp (so gate/core/gate wall), then start chronoboosting stalkers after ur sentry. quite an easy hold if u do that I absolutely do not think forge + cannons are optimal at all, I think its a very poor way to respond. I made post way back, but this is how I started walling off to allow for stopping 1 base all in's if I scout them, and how to turn it into a normal wall after. http://img64.imageshack.us/i/tosswallin.png/Basically, build your core vertical with your first gateway, and then build a pylon right before zealot pops out of the gateway (you can afford it at like 70% completion) for a normal wall-in. Or, just use another gateway in the 3x3 spot to block cheeze. Safest wall I have come up with period for the top of a ramp. Something small, but it helps
I was thinking of this wall off technique that you have a picture of, and was wondering if somebody else might talk about it. This is a good post because this wall off (if you make it gate-core-gate after scouted cheese) you can wall in and get stalkers before lings and the 3 roaches can take down a gateway. And, by the time (if) they kill a gateway, you can forcefield, or have used forcefield to delay it dieing, either way you have to slow it down a little, so you can have about 4-5 stalkers + probes fighting to help stabilize.
The reason the 3rr is so powerful is because they bust down your wall (the zealot). The answer, is a better wall.
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Tried it on ladder, if you go for 1 gate - robo into 3 gate robo and chrono your buildings you can have enough zealots and immortals to hold it off. You really only need 1 immo and 5-6 lots, less if you fight at a choke.
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You did a 13 gate. If you 10 gate your warpgates are up earlier and you will have 1 zealot + 5 stalkers to hold it off. He is pretty much all in. With some micro and good unit composition + a little probe help if necessary you can fairly easily stop it and have an advantage. As far as I can tell this is a typical 1 base zerg push.
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EPT
