EPT[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 28
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
i have come to the conclusion that this build is COMPLETELY UNBEATABLE by protoss unless he does 1 of 2 things right when he scouts the roach warren 1) make cannons in time. most toss wont do this, and there are options for the zerg to baneling bust this properly 2) completely wall with 4gates quickly upon scouting this build which stops the lings from coming in because they have to destroy a gateway first while the stalkers shoot at them most protoss will not do any of those 2 things, meaning for all the zergs out there if you copy the build in the replay it will give you FREE WINS against EVERY PROTOSS PLAYER (even master protoss players) until it catches on that the above are the 2 counters and i dont even think cannons properly counter this. when a zerg scouts forge+cannon he can use the next inject on 4 drones and get 2gas baneling bust which probably will beat the cannons | ||
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SDream
Brazil896 Posts
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Hane
France210 Posts
(ladder game ~2700master) replay : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6849682/sc2/p_incroyabeul.SC2Replay | ||
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flyingcows
United States31 Posts
thank you ~1k dia toss | ||
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LuosSoul
United States6 Posts
protoss got the 4 warp gate and has zerg this i dont see anything wrong o.o | ||
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Hane
France210 Posts
Then you have to rely on sentry (4-5) and stalkers to shot overlords/roach/... Most all in's (p-t-z) are countered by 3gate with chrono. You can also make gate cyber forge if you are not sure that you will ff perfectly. | ||
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jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
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cekkmt
United States352 Posts
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Proto_Protoss
United States495 Posts
But the only thing i can think of besides cannons are to let the first 3 roaches up the ramp and keep using the range 5 and cut either the 1-2 roaches in half with FF and using Zealot and sentry to try to pick off the roaches. You have to be really scared of the Zerglings if they manage to get past your units and surround you have lost as you know. | ||
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
On February 02 2011 13:46 confusedcrib wrote: It's how I stop roach rushes, I have never lost to a roach rush with it. I realize the zerglings are an additional problem, I don't know how to deal with that. But for god's sake just try it, I'm good enough to realize an immortal is good against roaches and that it can pop almost in time, probably in time if optimized, just try it. Or keep complaining that no one can help you at Zerg is imba. I also get 2 warp gates up, with more efficient use of chrono boosting, perhaps you could warp in an additional 2 units in time. It's not just an immortal, it's 2 zealots, a stalker, 2 warp ins, and an immortal crib you are a fucking bronze retard. immortal rush is NOT the answer to a zerg allin like this. he needs to hold his wall when the attack comes and there is NO way an immortal is gonna be present at that time. even if it was present at that time, an immortal is gonna do exactly SQUAT against 3 roaches and a shit ton of lings. this is not the standard roach rush timing taht you have prolly seen 100x it is an allin designed to hit much earlier. | ||
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Mr. Nefarious
United States515 Posts
This is actually pretty funny, I saw this thread on teamliquid earlier today and as a diamond z player myself who has problems with ZvP, I immediately watched the replay and put it into my build list. A friend came over and I decided to show him how to korean 4 warpgate all in on Steppes. My 4 gate started seconds before his 3 roaches and 12+ lings hit my base. I laughed since I had JUST read about the build on TL. We base traded and I ended up losing but it did surprise me with one thing, my 4 warpgate all in hit seconds before his units hit my base, even on a very small map (Steppes of War). Had I not warped my units in at the proxy, I would've been able to defend. After watching the zerg build several times it is pretty all in, you cut drones for a significant period of time to get those units out and they show up about 5:30. The korean 4 gate all in I was using had all gates into warpgates and warping in units by 5:10-5:15, enough time to defend the 3 RR + Lings. Yes you have to cut probes to get out the four gates that quick, but at least it's possible to defend the roach + lings rush. The build I was using is the 10 pylon, 10 gate, 13 assim, 15 core, 18 @ 450 build 3 more gates, instant WG research + constant chrono boost on it. You must save all chronoboost after your first 2 chrono'd probes to have enough to constantly chrono the WG research. Gates and chrono'd WG research finish at the same time ~5:00. | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
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charlie420247
United States692 Posts
On February 03 2011 05:17 travis wrote: uh, i always put my units on hold position when i can. but in the game i had to move my units to go meet the lings at the choke and try to get there first, which they did. tbh i probably did put them on hold position at that point but maybe it was just too late. "holy crap". also, why would that even be important information. why would it be important information to know that units have to be on hold position to keep enemy units from running through them. i doubt i have EVER needed to know that up until this game. and also it is just stupid that that's in the game. wow travis i cannot BELIEVE youve never had a string of lings run right past your blocking zealot into your mineral line. i ALWAYS test the the blocking zealot if i have lings available. | ||
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Kefka.dancingmad
Canada262 Posts
On February 03 2011 08:08 P00RKID wrote: ...when they build their roach warren 25 seconds after the pool pops, yeah, that's how you do it. If he had done roach warren as soon as pool done, his roaches would reach your zealot just as the 2nd and 3rd gateway finish warping in, and you only have 1 zealot, 1 sentry, and 1 stalker, and only enough energy to forcefield once, witch about 10-15 energy left before you could forcefield again, meaning the roaches kill the zealot with spotter overlord, and zerglings run up after forcefield is down, and then its lings vs 3 stalkers. This replay shows how small the timing really is for the rush, you can't delay it at all or its completely worthless. wouldnt of matterd i rolled it neway | ||
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SpiciestZerg
United States154 Posts
I think the best solutions were already presented (pylon block +stalker), and i'd even put a gateway behind the pylon if they tried to power through it. Zerg is pretty far behind on workers, so as long as you survive you should be ahead. Also, you didnt scout the roach warren, but if zerg gets gas+ling speed+roaches before expanding and cuts drones, a forge isnt that much of an investment. So, if you saw it coming a forge+cannon would definitely be viable. 3 cannons definitely seems like overkill though, and sentries nullify the threat of a baneling bust, plus if he transitioned to that Zerg would be even farther behind in econ, and P will have warpgate by then. and theres been a billion posts by now, so have you had any success against this yet? | ||
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ionlyplayPROtoss
Canada573 Posts
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On February 03 2011 10:24 charlie420247 wrote: crib you are a fucking bronze retard. immortal rush is NOT the answer to a zerg allin like this. he needs to hold his wall when the attack comes and there is NO way an immortal is gonna be present at that time. even if it was present at that time, an immortal is gonna do exactly SQUAT against 3 roaches and a shit ton of lings. this is not the standard roach rush timing taht you have prolly seen 100x it is an allin designed to hit much earlier. You should calm down. Okay, the immortal will not come out unless you're on a lolmap such as Shakuras Plateau. When you're in any type of close-positions, that immortal simply won't come in time. You need sentries in close-positions, and you just need a lot of them to repel the zerglings. By producing sentries, you will probably not have an immortal. Also, he can also snipe the zealots with the roaches and just attack because you have way too few units. You need at least 2 zealots as an insurance by the time he comes. I actually don't know how to stop this build because I never faced it, so I'm just trying to give a little tips. Please don't flame. On February 03 2011 09:55 cekkmt wrote: im a noob so take this as a grain of salt. Since stalkers don't work well against speedlings, you could alter your wall, if you know it is coming and go gateway-forge-pylon, so that stalkers can't get out and zealots can, with the pylon covering the small hole between the gateway and the forge,which would be on both sides of the ramp, and make cannons behind that wall. you would have to destroy the pylon later, and stalkers could be warped in on the low ground until blink is researched. You can't blindly go this. You won't be able to scout him quickly enough with a 9 pylon scout unless he's in close-positions, and using the pylon as a wall is never a good idea (referring back to doing it blindly). | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
Cheers. | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
On February 03 2011 09:16 roymarthyup wrote: in the replay the zerg has 3 roaches and 24 speedlings at the enemy protoss base at 5:30 i have come to the conclusion that this build is COMPLETELY UNBEATABLE by protoss unless he does 1 of 2 things right when he scouts the roach warren 1) make cannons in time. most toss wont do this, and there are options for the zerg to baneling bust this properly 2) completely wall with 4gates quickly upon scouting this build which stops the lings from coming in because they have to destroy a gateway first while the stalkers shoot at them most protoss will not do any of those 2 things, meaning for all the zergs out there if you copy the build in the replay it will give you FREE WINS against EVERY PROTOSS PLAYER (even master protoss players) until it catches on that the above are the 2 counters and i dont even think cannons properly counter this. when a zerg scouts forge+cannon he can use the next inject on 4 drones and get 2gas baneling bust which probably will beat the cannons If you go with the cannon counter, couldn't you warp Stalkers in front of the Cannons to counter the looming Baneling Bust? | ||
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