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On February 03 2011 03:38 travis wrote:
I gotta say I find it funny that people keep telling me I played badly vs it or that it is easy to stop (which obviously I could play better after discussing some theory, and you're right I didn't want to alter my build drastically if I could help it). And yet zerg after zerg comes in saying that they try it and they win over and over with it.
It's pretty easy to criticize other people huh. I guess tt1 and cruncher suck too. It's like the sensationalist title (which was the point) is a calling for assholes to come in and criticize a player who's better than them anyways. I know I suck but jesus 98% of you suck worse.
It's just a build that requires drastic action as far as modifying your build, and I didn't take drastic enough action, and now I know better.
Nuh-uh you suck worse.
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Dude, I thing you lost because you bo was bad. Also, this build is vulnerable to early chronoboosted stalkers.
What I would do to stop this would be to make a second gate after the cybercore and while the first zealot is being built. Stop chronoboosting probes, and chronoboost the shit out of the UNITS not the warpgate technology, because it will not be out in time.
I mean, after you scout it, its pretty easy to handle it.
And you really need stalkers because of the range. Like, maybe one sentry, them only stalkers.
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When the attacke came you had 21 to 14 workers so when you see a zerg all in you can get a forge+cannons knowing that your ahead
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On February 03 2011 03:38 travis wrote:
I gotta say I find it funny that people keep telling me I played badly vs it or that it is easy to stop (which obviously I could play better after discussing some theory, and you're right I didn't want to alter my build drastically if I could help it). And yet zerg after zerg comes in saying that they try it and they win over and over with it.
It's pretty easy to criticize other people huh. I guess tt1 and cruncher suck too. It's like the sensationalist title (which was the point) is a calling for assholes to come in and criticize a player who's better than them anyways. I know I suck but jesus 98% of you suck worse.
It's just a build that requires drastic action as far as modifying your build, and I didn't take drastic enough action, and now I know better.
Dude, that was the most obvious cheese. It's like losing to a 2 gate in PvT and whining that it is overpowered because you will never win without a wall
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On February 03 2011 03:42 arterian wrote:![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-185876.jpg) I'm pretty sure this is the same build. Seems pretty easy to defend with 1 gas 3 gate (transition to 4 gate) Although on LT it's much easier to defend than metal I'm sure
Catz did a build with a similar idea, but it was muuuuch slower. Most importantly, he delayed his roach warren and his queen after his pool finished for no reason, slowing down the attack substantially. Travis's sentry expand build would have held that attack easily because he would have been able to get enough sentries to continuously forcefield. Catz also went gas before pool which got him zergling speed a lot earlier than he actually used it. Pool first would get his queen and roach warren up earlier. Because of the delays on his pool, queen and roach warren, Catz was also unable to spend his minerals and was floating ~300 while macroing off of 13 drones.
The end result was an attack of the same size, but about 30 seconds later. Catz is a good player, but I'm guessing that was one of his first times testing that timing. He was a long way away from an optimal 3 roach + speedling all-in.
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Im not as good as you so this might be completly wrong, but if you scouted the super fast roach warren and the 1 base chrono boosting units instead of warpgate tech might have helped you out has a couple more and split the army in half with a force feild.
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i mean normal lings, not speedlings. he'll be getting speed but at that point it's just normal lings. clearly they are normal lings. normal lings catch probes just fine. why do u guys have to be nitpicky dicks
so i accidentally typed speedlings when they are still normal lings. CLEARLY THATS WHAT I MEAN. god
You need to calm down. When you make a relatively inflammatory post you're inviting a certain level of skepticism and nit.....pickiness.
Back on topic though, normal lings are faster than probes slightly off creep, signifigantly on creep. It's not unreasonable to leave with the probe once you see the pool finish and eyeball how many larvae just started morphing, and then return 30-60 seconds later. There is no real chance that 2 slow lings off creep are going to end your probe before he gets back in there.
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I knew someone would find a catz version of this 
He's experimented with so much, theres no way he hasn't tried it
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As usual, Darkforce gets it. Only people who don't play zergs can not understand how cheesy and allinish this is.
Well, at least maybe protoss can now join zergs in wanting better maps 
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Is it possible to rework the positioning of your wall so the gap where the zealot sits is more central, away from the edges and prevents the sniping of the zealot(s) with the roaches from the low ground?
Obviously this means he can still plug away at your buildings, but better that than the walling zealot.
If he moves up to the high ground to attack the zealot then the FFs become more effective in splitting his forces.
Just a suggestion, sorry if its bollocks, I am a mere platinum idiot and only play zerg.
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I can't say I'm a terribly good player, but a friend and I just played 10 ZvPs in a row with this build. We found that going 10 gate, two pylons in the wall-off, and a more stalker heavy mix with only one sentry was the best way to hold off the rush. The idea was to trap the roaches in a FF if possible and focus the stalkers on the roaches. If the three roaches go down without the front wall being compromised, the rush basically fails.
The 10-gate and faster warpgate upgrade hurts your early economy a bit, but is more safe against any type of early zerg cheese. Plus, if the zerg plays standard, your faster gateway lets you send a zealot and stalker to apply pressure and force lings before speed goes up. I don't know if any of this would hold true for higher levels of play, but it worked pretty well for a couple of diamond scrubs.
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once you saw that you weren't going to have another FF and they were going to breach, you obv couldn't hold with just a zealot and 2 sentries, so throw down another gateway to complete the wall off. It would take a while for lings and 3 roaches to breach the wall and by then you've warped in quite a gateway army.
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things i observe, ur gas is too late, u dont make a sentry for at least 10-15 seconds ( main issue ) and you dont chrono out units. ur 3rd gateway was very late and to hold cheese there's no room for error sadly.
basically, chrono out units and 4gate him he's cutting drone production to do this attack.
im rewatching this, you make a lot of errors in your build order ( probe timings ) ( cyber timings ) ( gate timings) and pylon timings and you mess up chrono timings too.
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On February 03 2011 03:33 gustavo wrote:/facepalm scout at 20 no expo. zerg is 1 basing. never scout again. just chrono probes pretty much. zerg all ins 14 workers vs 24 workers. you control your few units poorly  clearly unstoppable.
Don't understand what you're trying to say here. And clearly you're blind in the sense that I see his whole army, realizing that he's going for the same build as mentioned in the this thread, with my second probe. If you're going to criticize someone, at least see the obvious scouts.
Further more control few units poorly? How? What did you want me to do, focus fire lings with zealots and make sure not one unit freaking dies? It was simple defense, and no amount of micro would've made a difference, Zealots in front to mash lings, stalkers at back to range the sht out of everything, ff ramp and win the game. I'm sorry I didn't use 200 apm to block a ramp.
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I think his build was just bad. My 3gate expand build can hold this off. I can get 3 forcefields off and then my warpgate finishes and i warp in 3 more sentrys. But his build he only had 2 sentrys. So I think his build was just a little bad so it caused it to look imbalanced when its really not.
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Can I commend Travis for not getting too pissed of with some of the replys. At this level of play I don't really know what I'm talking enough to comment, so I won't. A choice that a lot of other people possibly should have taken.
As a pretty bad player myself all I can say is losing the probe for scouting doesn't seem to bad and thats already been covered.
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just by using the term "impossible" you take a simple request for feedback and turn it into a firestorm, was it really necessary to title the post like that? Perhaps it's impossible to hold off with the build you used, I could see that, but you don't seem to be trying to make that your main point. I also see that you used the dreaded "imba" term a lot as well at the end there, is there really a need for that to come into play when you've only lost to it 3 times? Cheer up, and why bother with page after page of this?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all Roach Rush builds require that the protoss player gets cannons to fend it off. I didn't think there was another way to do it. I thought the second you see a zerg 1base and grab a roach warren, your forge should go down immediately.
Kind of like it's impossible to fend off a cannon rush without spinecrawlers (Assuming you didn't kill the pylon). This is why static defense is in the game.
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Your units are not on hold position zerglings have no trouble running thru two sentries and a zealot not even on hold position
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On February 03 2011 04:42 Dubz wrote:
Your units are not on hold position zerglings have no trouble running thru two sentries and a zealot not even on hold position
oh i didn't realize they had to be on hold position. i don't understand the basis for that. why are opponents units able to push my units out of the way, that doesn't seem like a good aspect to the game at all -.-
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EPT
