|
On January 31 2011 22:54 sqrt wrote:
You constantly move around the muta ball staying outside the range of the mutalisks. Never engage in a direct fight. I've been able to take out groups of 20 mutas with nothing but 3 phoenixes, just click near them and stay outside of the range. Exploit the fact that Phoenixes have greater range and movement speed than mutalisks. In simpler words - click around the ball.
thats so micro intensive. you must not have built anything the rest of the game =P either that or your opponent was really bad. 20 mutas > 3 phoenix
|
Not to stop the threads progress, but phoenix have range 4 and not 5.
|
On February 01 2011 03:07 KillerPlague wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2011 22:54 sqrt wrote:
You constantly move around the muta ball staying outside the range of the mutalisks. Never engage in a direct fight. I've been able to take out groups of 20 mutas with nothing but 3 phoenixes, just click near them and stay outside of the range. Exploit the fact that Phoenixes have greater range and movement speed than mutalisks. In simpler words - click around the ball. thats so micro intensive. you must not have built anything the rest of the game =P either that or your opponent was really bad. 20 mutas > 3 phoenix
Its not micro intensive at all; in fact its so easy I think its a stretch to even call it micro. Its a joke.
|
Control shift-F your phoenix's... locks the screen on them, easy as hell to control with only your mouse moving
|
i never knew that phoenix had this auto atack thing while they move. it makes the micro so easy bleh 
|
On February 01 2011 03:13 Azerbaijan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 03:07 KillerPlague wrote:On January 31 2011 22:54 sqrt wrote:
You constantly move around the muta ball staying outside the range of the mutalisks. Never engage in a direct fight. I've been able to take out groups of 20 mutas with nothing but 3 phoenixes, just click near them and stay outside of the range. Exploit the fact that Phoenixes have greater range and movement speed than mutalisks. In simpler words - click around the ball. thats so micro intensive. you must not have built anything the rest of the game =P either that or your opponent was really bad. 20 mutas > 3 phoenix Its not micro intensive at all; in fact its so easy I think its a stretch to even call it micro. Its a joke.
Indeed. They are quite APM intensive, but simply right clicking isn't really micro in the traditional sense now is it.
|
On February 01 2011 03:13 Azerbaijan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 03:07 KillerPlague wrote:On January 31 2011 22:54 sqrt wrote:
You constantly move around the muta ball staying outside the range of the mutalisks. Never engage in a direct fight. I've been able to take out groups of 20 mutas with nothing but 3 phoenixes, just click near them and stay outside of the range. Exploit the fact that Phoenixes have greater range and movement speed than mutalisks. In simpler words - click around the ball. thats so micro intensive. you must not have built anything the rest of the game =P either that or your opponent was really bad. 20 mutas > 3 phoenix Its not micro intensive at all; in fact its so easy I think its a stretch to even call it micro. Its a joke.
That only works if the zerg player is stupid enough to continually chase your phoenix.
|
Surprisingly enough phoenix control is NOT that easy against a competent zerg player...
I spent a game learning phoenix vs muta micro from scratch where a zerg player went 2 base muta with cut econ
it takes experience to learn how to micro your phoenixes imo. This game was great practice for me. I lost my first few phoenixes but regained composure, adapted my micro and learned the proper range, acceleration, etc of my phoenixes and eventually built up my phoenix force.
... it comes with experience, try it out (against a friend - someone who actually controls the mutas properly)
|
you basicly mirror the Mutalisks' movement, if they move forward you mvoe backwards if they retreat you press forward. really nothing special
|
On January 31 2011 22:54 sqrt wrote:
You constantly move around the muta ball staying outside the range of the mutalisks. Never engage in a direct fight. I've been able to take out groups of 20 mutas with nothing but 3 phoenixes, just click near them and stay outside of the range. Exploit the fact that Phoenixes have greater range and movement speed than mutalisks. In simpler words - click around the ball.
Man if you killed 20 mutas with 3 phoenixes then your opponent's micro was a huge fail.^^
|
thats the funny part
theyve not only made it so that phoenixes hard counter mutas
now you dont even have to micro them! oh and they come out in 5 seconds too 
|
On February 01 2011 03:23 SichuanPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 03:13 Azerbaijan wrote:On February 01 2011 03:07 KillerPlague wrote:On January 31 2011 22:54 sqrt wrote:
You constantly move around the muta ball staying outside the range of the mutalisks. Never engage in a direct fight. I've been able to take out groups of 20 mutas with nothing but 3 phoenixes, just click near them and stay outside of the range. Exploit the fact that Phoenixes have greater range and movement speed than mutalisks. In simpler words - click around the ball. thats so micro intensive. you must not have built anything the rest of the game =P either that or your opponent was really bad. 20 mutas > 3 phoenix Its not micro intensive at all; in fact its so easy I think its a stretch to even call it micro. Its a joke. Indeed. They are quite APM intensive, but simply right clicking isn't really micro in the traditional sense now is it.
Its all relative. SC2 isn't really APM intensive in the traditional sense now is it.
|
Wow, it seems like we got some really awesome protoss players here in teamliquid.
- Killing 20 mutas with 3 phoenix easily (I bet u did good job macroing and didn't lose huge amount of probes/other stuff either while killing those 20 mutas with 3 phoenix lol).
- Phoenix seems also to be very easy to micro cause u dont have to attack move.
I really would like to see a replay from one these people using phoenix's as effectively as they say while playing solid in the other areas of the game aswell.
|
On February 01 2011 01:28 Buddhist wrote:
The key is: NEVER FLY TOWARD THEM.
Always fly away, or if they are out of range, orthogonally to the mutalisks. IE. if you need to get closer, fly around the edge of them, circularly, rather than flying at them.
Competely disagree with this point. You want to be flying towards them whenever they are retreating, whichi is usually because the only time a muta wants to move towards microed phenoxes is when there are other ways they can do damage besides hitting the phenox (example: attacking buildings or units with no anti air).
|
zergs who complain that it's impossible to use mutas vs phoenix are clueless and probably have terrible control. it's only impossible if the protoss has the edge in numbers. it's very very difficult to hit mutas without them being able to hit back. do they even have different ranges? it might be *1* more range for the phoenixes.
what is pretty much impossible is killing a large number of mutas with a small number of phoenix. it's not going to happen. it's not even going to happen with incredibly low latency. and with high latency the only thing that's going to happen is that ur phoenixes are going to instantly disappear.
|
On February 01 2011 03:13 Azerbaijan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 03:07 KillerPlague wrote:On January 31 2011 22:54 sqrt wrote:
You constantly move around the muta ball staying outside the range of the mutalisks. Never engage in a direct fight. I've been able to take out groups of 20 mutas with nothing but 3 phoenixes, just click near them and stay outside of the range. Exploit the fact that Phoenixes have greater range and movement speed than mutalisks. In simpler words - click around the ball. thats so micro intensive. you must not have built anything the rest of the game =P either that or your opponent was really bad. 20 mutas > 3 phoenix Its not micro intensive at all; in fact its so easy I think its a stretch to even call it micro. Its a joke.
god, why are you even saying anything when your post (and other's posts) are sooooo far from the truth?
|
I completely agree with travis on this one. I guess it is "plausible" that 3 Phoenix can beat 20 muta, but i doubt that has ever happened in a battle with 2 competent players. end of story
In my experience as a Heavy muta player. The best way to engage a muta pack is to never really do it. keep your Phoenix flying all around and sniping as many overlords as you can and that alone will do a lot of hurt on the Zerg, Then in you have to attack with them, never move towards the mutas. When i battle a microing protoss with my muta against Phoenix, i just run away, wait for the phoenixes to go towards me, turn and snipe 2 before he can run away. So if you are the P, do not charge into the mutas.
|
On February 01 2011 05:13 travis wrote:
zergs who complain that it's impossible to use mutas vs phoenix are clueless and probably have terrible control. it's only impossible if the protoss has the edge in numbers. it's very very difficult to hit mutas without them being able to hit back. do they even have different ranges? it might be *1* more range for the phoenixes.
what is pretty much impossible is killing a large number of mutas with a small number of phoenix. it's not going to happen. it's not even going to happen with incredibly low latency. and with high latency the only thing that's going to happen is that ur phoenixes are going to instantly disappear.
No it's completely true. Phoenix build time has been decreased. I don't think constantly cb 2 stargates will fall behind vs spire. Phoenix do more damage, are faster and have 1 additional range. So in a phoenix vs muta battle phoenix will shred them apart. No contest.
Phoenix micro isn't hard at all. They move and shoot at the same time, which makes it in theory impossible for mutas to get a shot off. Ofcourse latency and a bunch of other stuff are present, so it's true that you will never beat 20 mutas with 3 phoenix. But in a little better ratio's, the phoenix will own them. Compare phoenix micro to marine micro (vs banelings), now that is something that is a lot harder to pull off.
People tend to forget that mutas are horrible in a strait up battle. The only reason they 'work" is that you can harass with them, thus getting the army advantage and then you can use them in your army. Phoenix totally negate that, because every time you harass phoenix will come after you. You can't run, and fighting them head on is a great way to lose all your mutas.
|
It's easy to micro only if your opponent is bad and continues to pursue your phoenixes. If that's the case, you can just click away from them and your phoenix will continue to attack.
But imo, it's fairly difficult to have perfect micro if your opponent is any good, because of latency. (This is only in my experience.) If you aren't too confident in your micro, I'd suggest you just wait for a few more phoenix, since phoenix are effective against mutas even when not microed.
|
On February 01 2011 05:22 Brutus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 05:13 travis wrote:
zergs who complain that it's impossible to use mutas vs phoenix are clueless and probably have terrible control. it's only impossible if the protoss has the edge in numbers. it's very very difficult to hit mutas without them being able to hit back. do they even have different ranges? it might be *1* more range for the phoenixes.
what is pretty much impossible is killing a large number of mutas with a small number of phoenix. it's not going to happen. it's not even going to happen with incredibly low latency. and with high latency the only thing that's going to happen is that ur phoenixes are going to instantly disappear. No it's completely true. Phoenix build time has been decreased. I don't think constantly cb 2 stargates will fall behind vs spire. Phoenix do more damage, are faster and have 1 additional range. So in a phoenix vs muta battle phoenix will shred them apart. No contest. Phoenix micro isn't hard at all. They move and shoot at the same time, which makes it in theory impossible for mutas to get a shot off. Ofcourse latency and a bunch of other stuff are present, so it's true that you will never beat 20 mutas with 3 phoenix. But in a little better ratio's, the phoenix will own them. Compare phoenix micro to marine micro (vs banelings), now that is something that is a lot harder to pull off. People tend to forget that mutas are horrible in a strait up battle. The only reason they 'work" is that you can harass with them, thus getting the army advantage and then you can use them in your army. Phoenix totally negate that, because every time you harass phoenix will come after you. You can't run, and fighting them head on is a great way to lose all your mutas.
you're just straight up wrong about this.
2 base phoenix will probably lose to 3base muta when the 2 players are of equal skill. the zerg will just get too many mutas. it's possible to counter it but u really need to get a 3rd base fast and find some way to limit the zerg in bases. not to mention things become very grim when u have 25 phoenix, the z has 34 muta, and then the z switches to hydras or even to corruptors.
I am almost sure that in a straight up battle, for the cost, 0/0 upgrades on each, a group of mutas will beat a group of phoenix. The mutas would need to be stacked, though. It would at least be close, anyways.
with awesome micro phoenix beats muta for the cost but it's really not viable in game. firstly, the muta player is going to cut directions and fly away any time u try to skirt around the edge of the mutas. then if u try to chase, they will cut back into you if you get close and you will lose a phoenix, maybe they'll lose a muta.
it really just doesn't work at all how lots of you say, you just haven't dealt with good muta control before. not to mention this insane CONSTANT micro(which is what is required to chase mutas all around the map killing them while not losing phoenix - which can happen instantly at any moment) requires that you don't do anything else besides look at your phoenix. not viable at all in a real game.
also, i think marine micro vs banelings isn't really comparable to phoenix vs muta micro. 2 totally different things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
