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On September 20 2012 02:16 Maxamix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 22:49 ArtyK wrote:On September 19 2012 09:21 Chandra wrote:
Why do pros seem to favor observers over hallucinated phoenixes for scouting in PvZ? It seems like it's almost a necessity to get two observers in the matchup if you do all your scouting with observers: one for army splitting and one for scouting the zerg. However if you're going for a third, you'll most likely be getting 6 or so sentries with a lot of energy. Wouldn't it make more sense to just spend the extra 75 min/25 gas to get hallucination? That way you aren't relying on one slow observer for all your scouting, which is susceptible to getting picked off by spores if you aren't really attentive anyway. And you can scout more often, and in multiple places at once if you have enough energy for it. You also get more robo time for immortals if you're so inclined. Am I missing something about the thought process involved in this decision? Maybe i missunderstood what you meant, but isnt hallucination 100/100? Anyway, energy is really REALLY important at this stage of the game, and robo can be used to produce the most powerful unit against roaches, so spending an extra 100/100 might delay your tech too much, and will not provide any dps what so ever...(and has no detection) Im no pro, but i personnaly think hallucination will never be the best choice as protoss before the 10 minute mark against zerg (you can probably use it but it wont make it the most viable strategy), and when its lategame, the pros should get it cause its cheap, and force fields are not that useful anymore, they probably just forget about it, having other things to micro :p For splitting your army when you don't have many observers or when you just lost one, just send one zelot to the closest xel naga, If the zerg kills it but doesnt seem to attack, just send another one (he probably just cleared the xel naga then pull back, and only one zergling will most likely be there) For the non covered paths by the xel naga tower, just plant some pylons or send a probe where his army or runbys will most likely pass through (pylon delays runbys if he a-clicked, and if not, you can warpin units :p) But still, the few times i see this upgrade, some cool idrage moments happens :p As a Z i can tell you one advantage hallucination has over observers : Scouting. It is way harder to deny a hallucinated phoenix scout than it is to deny an observer scout (considering you should have lair + OS when hallucination hits. if you are careful queen + os will deny obs scout over a slight portion of your base and will enable you to hide tech (T3 / spire)
Yes, i didnt say that hallucination was bad, but that it was not the best choice ^^
Of course scouting is easier, but everything else makes it less viable in my opinion, and pros seems to be thinking the same way, at least on streams or tournaments that i watched.
I also forgot to say that you will not even get hallucination before an eventual observer after ffe, because of warpgate and the amout of chronos you have.
As far as denying hallucinated phoenix goes, its almost impossible but still, if you are careful with your observers, it will last a lot longer (+detect and cost no energy).
So im still pretty sure that observer is better before the zerg gets a lot of bases, then hallu become really powerful ^^
EDIT : Monk says it better in way less words 
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On September 19 2012 22:49 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 09:21 Chandra wrote:
Why do pros seem to favor observers over hallucinated phoenixes for scouting in PvZ? It seems like it's almost a necessity to get two observers in the matchup if you do all your scouting with observers: one for army splitting and one for scouting the zerg. However if you're going for a third, you'll most likely be getting 6 or so sentries with a lot of energy. Wouldn't it make more sense to just spend the extra 75 min/25 gas to get hallucination? That way you aren't relying on one slow observer for all your scouting, which is susceptible to getting picked off by spores if you aren't really attentive anyway. And you can scout more often, and in multiple places at once if you have enough energy for it. You also get more robo time for immortals if you're so inclined. Am I missing something about the thought process involved in this decision? Maybe i missunderstood what you meant, but isnt hallucination 100/100? Anyway, energy is really REALLY important at this stage of the game, and robo can be used to produce the most powerful unit against roaches, so spending an extra 100/100 might delay your tech too much, and will not provide any dps what so ever...(and has no detection) Im no pro, but i personnaly think hallucination will never be the best choice as protoss before the 10 minute mark against zerg (you can probably use it but it wont make it the most viable strategy), and when its lategame, the pros should get it cause its cheap, and force fields are not that useful anymore, they probably just forget about it, having other things to micro :p For splitting your army when you don't have many observers or when you just lost one, just send one zelot to the closest xel naga, If the zerg kills it but doesnt seem to attack, just send another one (he probably just cleared the xel naga then pull back, and only one zergling will most likely be there) For the non covered paths by the xel naga tower, just plant some pylons or send a probe where his army or runbys will most likely pass through (pylon delays runbys if he a-clicked, and if not, you can warpin units :p) But still, the few times i see this upgrade, some cool idrage moments happens :p
I meant the cost in comparison to the cost of a scouting observer, which is 25/75. So if I were to get hallucination instead of a second observer for scouting purposes it would be an extra 75/25, which doesn't seem like that big of an investment to me. I wasn't asking if hallucination could allow me to skip a robo all together. Just if it could adequately replace the role of the scouting observer (I always get an observer to post outside my third/natural for detection and army scouting regardless). In my own PvZs I like going for colossus timings, so I feel like I can't really dedicate a whole lot of robo time to replacing lost observers, so hallucination just seems more convenient to me. I haven't seen a lot of pros use hallucination scouting, hence my question, but I guess there are some that do, as Monk pointed out. I think I'll try it out.
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Is sc2 playable at 9 frames per second?
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On September 20 2012 03:13 Chandra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 22:49 ArtyK wrote:On September 19 2012 09:21 Chandra wrote:
Why do pros seem to favor observers over hallucinated phoenixes for scouting in PvZ? It seems like it's almost a necessity to get two observers in the matchup if you do all your scouting with observers: one for army splitting and one for scouting the zerg. However if you're going for a third, you'll most likely be getting 6 or so sentries with a lot of energy. Wouldn't it make more sense to just spend the extra 75 min/25 gas to get hallucination? That way you aren't relying on one slow observer for all your scouting, which is susceptible to getting picked off by spores if you aren't really attentive anyway. And you can scout more often, and in multiple places at once if you have enough energy for it. You also get more robo time for immortals if you're so inclined. Am I missing something about the thought process involved in this decision? Maybe i missunderstood what you meant, but isnt hallucination 100/100? Anyway, energy is really REALLY important at this stage of the game, and robo can be used to produce the most powerful unit against roaches, so spending an extra 100/100 might delay your tech too much, and will not provide any dps what so ever...(and has no detection) Im no pro, but i personnaly think hallucination will never be the best choice as protoss before the 10 minute mark against zerg (you can probably use it but it wont make it the most viable strategy), and when its lategame, the pros should get it cause its cheap, and force fields are not that useful anymore, they probably just forget about it, having other things to micro :p For splitting your army when you don't have many observers or when you just lost one, just send one zelot to the closest xel naga, If the zerg kills it but doesnt seem to attack, just send another one (he probably just cleared the xel naga then pull back, and only one zergling will most likely be there) For the non covered paths by the xel naga tower, just plant some pylons or send a probe where his army or runbys will most likely pass through (pylon delays runbys if he a-clicked, and if not, you can warpin units :p) But still, the few times i see this upgrade, some cool idrage moments happens :p I meant the cost in comparison to the cost of a scouting observer, which is 25/75. So if I were to get hallucination instead of a second observer for scouting purposes it would be an extra 75/25, which doesn't seem like that big of an investment to me. I wasn't asking if hallucination could allow me to skip a robo all together. Just if it could adequately replace the role of the scouting observer (I always get an observer to post outside my third/natural for detection and army scouting regardless). In my own PvZs I like going for colossus timings, so I feel like I can't really dedicate a whole lot of robo time to replacing lost observers, so hallucination just seems more convenient to me. I haven't seen a lot of pros use hallucination scouting, hence my question, but I guess there are some that do, as Monk pointed out. I think I'll try it out.
Okay ^^
But i said that hallucination delays tech, having a robo or not, sentrys still need energy, and you can even scout his tech with probes if you manage to hide them.
If your question was as simple as replacing obs by hallu, i think you could have found it yourself in game, thats why i just figured i could be more precise with my answer
Anyway, i need to be more word/efficient ^_^
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why do spores, spines, cannons all have 1 armour, but turrets have 0?
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On September 21 2012 15:52 vorxaw wrote:
why do spores, spines, cannons all have 1 armour, but turrets have 0?
spine has +2.
Strictly speaking, turret has 0 just because Blizzard designed so.
The fact that building armor upgrade exists might have something to do with it. Turret had 0 armor in broodwar as well.
If you are talking in the context of balance, take it to Designated Balance Discussion Thread
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On September 21 2012 16:46 Orek wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 15:52 vorxaw wrote:
why do spores, spines, cannons all have 1 armour, but turrets have 0? spine has +2. Strictly speaking, turret has 0 just because Blizzard designed so. The fact that building armor upgrade exists might have something to do with it. Turret had 0 armor in broodwar as well. If you are talking in the context of balance, take it to Designated Balance Discussion Thread
Also remember that you can repair them
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What is a solid opening as a Protoss in 2on2? (playing with a Zerg)
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Say I want to copy a build order from a pro player, but they're using an opening that's much more greedy than I'm comfortable with (in my current case blind 17 nexus, 17 forge in PvZ). Given this, what are the most important factors in adapting said build order for a less greedy opening? Should I focus more on specific timings, specific supplys, or other indicators (i.e. % warp gate being done, etc.)?
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On September 18 2012 06:35 colossusFTW wrote:
might sound dumb but can any fellow brotoss help me out and tell me how to hot key warpgate units so i can hit key and click instead of individually hitting one unit to warp out and having to do this for every warp gate?
I believe warpgates are auto-hotkeyed to "W". What you can do is hit 'W', which will select all your warpgates, then hit the hotkey of the unit that you want to warp in. Hold down Shift and click near the power grid. Hope this helps :D
My question is this. Whenever I'm playing, when should I know to go a certain unit if an opponent is going a certain unit. For example, if Z is going say Roach/ling, what unit should I focus on building as a Protoss? I feel that may be my biggest weakness in the game. I will build just...anything.
Also, how many Sentries is enough? Another downfall to my game is that I feel like I'll forget about sentries, or not build enough. What's the optimal amount?
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On September 22 2012 02:33 o0StatiK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:35 colossusFTW wrote:
might sound dumb but can any fellow brotoss help me out and tell me how to hot key warpgate units so i can hit key and click instead of individually hitting one unit to warp out and having to do this for every warp gate? I believe warpgates are auto-hotkeyed to "W". What you can do is hit 'W', which will select all your warpgates, then hit the hotkey of the unit that you want to warp in. Hold down Shift and click near the power grid. Hope this helps :D My question is this. Whenever I'm playing, when should I know to go a certain unit if an opponent is going a certain unit. For example, if Z is going say Roach/ling, what unit should I focus on building as a Protoss? I feel that may be my biggest weakness in the game. I will build just...anything. Also, how many Sentries is enough? Another downfall to my game is that I feel like I'll forget about sentries, or not build enough. What's the optimal amount?
Well this game is a lot about countering what you scout from your opponent
Just make units you feel are the best
So againts roach gling obviously : immortals+sentrys will be really good, with stalkers/ zelots (depends on if zerg have more roaches or glings)
In any matchup, never make more than 10 sentries, in pvp 1 is enough for guardian shield, in pvt no more than 5-6, and pvz : 10 max
The key is to make them early, gain energy, and try to not waste ff/gs, because you don't wanna spend 100 to 1000 gas on sentries when you need to tech and more expensive units like colossus, 2 sentries is already a looooooooooooooot of gas!
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On September 22 2012 01:21 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 16:46 Orek wrote:On September 21 2012 15:52 vorxaw wrote:
why do spores, spines, cannons all have 1 armour, but turrets have 0? spine has +2. Strictly speaking, turret has 0 just because Blizzard designed so. The fact that building armor upgrade exists might have something to do with it. Turret had 0 armor in broodwar as well. If you are talking in the context of balance, take it to Designated Balance Discussion Thread Also remember that you can repair them
thanks guys, lol no, this difference is not big enough to warrant balance discussion, just something i noticed when checking out exact building times for structures
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On September 22 2012 02:28 Chandra wrote:
Say I want to copy a build order from a pro player, but they're using an opening that's much more greedy than I'm comfortable with (in my current case blind 17 nexus, 17 forge in PvZ). Given this, what are the most important factors in adapting said build order for a less greedy opening? Should I focus more on specific timings, specific supplys, or other indicators (i.e. % warp gate being done, etc.)?
Worker count as opposed to supply, generally, as some builds might cut units harder than others. Check his saturations as he adds on gas, infrastructure, tech, and upgrades, etc. You'll have to cut elsewhere however if you want to hit the same timings while devoting resources away from economy (defense).
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Please pardon me if this has already been answered.
When should I stop producing Scvs?
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On September 22 2012 23:33 GrandpaGnome wrote:
Please pardon me if this has already been answered.
When should I stop producing Scvs?
60-70
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On September 22 2012 02:28 Chandra wrote:
Say I want to copy a build order from a pro player, but they're using an opening that's much more greedy than I'm comfortable with (in my current case blind 17 nexus, 17 forge in PvZ). Given this, what are the most important factors in adapting said build order for a less greedy opening? Should I focus more on specific timings, specific supplys, or other indicators (i.e. % warp gate being done, etc.)?
Itd be nice to know what build it is so I could help you better
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Hi folks, I have a simple question about SC2 interface:
Is it possible to make unit menu on the bottom-right disabled for mouse click? It will help me a lot in mastering my hotkey usage.
Thank you for your time. Cheers!
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Is it better to have 4 medivacs vs 2 Collossus or 2 medivacs and 2 vikings?
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I'd choose 4 medivacs as the 2 vikings arent going to do much damage versus the colossus and will be killed by the stalkers. However, if the Toss is doing a 2 base colossus all-in, 2 vikings is more useful.
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EPT
