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How many probes would I have to kill to justify sacrificing 2 banshees against a 2-base protoss?
Is 8 enough to break even? 10 to be ahead? Banshees cost 150 minerals/100 gas whereas probes only cost 50 minerals, but am I thinking about this wrong? Is direct cost comparison the only factor to consider when evaluating unit/probe trades, or should you give some leeway based on lost income? I know a dual nexus toss can chrono in 8 probes pretty fast, but is it much of a loss to lose the chrono energy and mining time?
Also, would you have to kill more or less drones or scv's to be even? Or do you figure the trade value of all races mineral gatherers the same?
Just trying to learn to evaluate my harass trades so I know if I'm effective.
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On December 09 2011 16:22 mizU wrote:
Why don't we see more pros pre-emptively bane burrow in mineral lines?
It's more cost-effective than a burrowed unit to delay an expo, and people don't scan their own expos unless something is blocking...
I think it's mostly because most people don't have banes with burrow. However, in people that do go that build, there isn't really a good reason not to do it. Hopefully someday the pros start doing it. I do it on occasion (when the opportunity presents itself.
I think one reason we don't see it a lot though is because 1)It requires you to have complete map control, which is hard against a good player, and 2) you are technically making your army smaller, not something most people find intuitive.
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On December 10 2011 00:42 MobileOne wrote:
How many probes would I have to kill to justify sacrificing 2 banshees against a 2-base protoss?
Is 8 enough to break even? 10 to be ahead? Banshees cost 150 minerals/100 gas whereas probes only cost 50 minerals, but am I thinking about this wrong? Is direct cost comparison the only factor to consider when evaluating unit/probe trades, or should you give some leeway based on lost income? I know a dual nexus toss can chrono in 8 probes pretty fast, but is it much of a loss to lose the chrono energy and mining time?
Also, would you have to kill more or less drones or scv's to be even? Or do you figure the trade value of all races mineral gatherers the same?
Just trying to learn to evaluate my harass trades so I know if I'm effective.
Depends on how early in the game it is and if you kill probes mining minerals or gas. Gas is what protoss really need (we have an abundance of minerals quite early), and even though we will replace the gas-miners with mineral-miners we will lose mining-time on the gas, and especially in the early game when we need to get our sentries and stalkers out while techning that can be a real bitch.
It's much better to kill off 2-3 probes and return later than to kill 8-10 straight up and lose your banshees though. Not to mention how annoying it is when i send a probe out to take a third and there are banshees there sniping it...
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On December 09 2011 19:59 Tobias wrote:
Against terrans, what is the best; colossus or immortal+high templar? I would imagine that immortal+templar is the best against marauder heavy play, but is colossus really better against terrans, ever? It feels like they can get out a ton of vikings in no-time so those coloxen only live for a few seconds anyway.
Collosus are obviously effective against Terran, otherwise it wouldn't be standard and used by all the pros.
Really though, what you need are collosus and high templar. That amount of aoe kills a terran bio army so fast. It all requires getting a quick third up though.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 10 2011 01:58 Tobias wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 00:42 MobileOne wrote:
How many probes would I have to kill to justify sacrificing 2 banshees against a 2-base protoss?
Is 8 enough to break even? 10 to be ahead? Banshees cost 150 minerals/100 gas whereas probes only cost 50 minerals, but am I thinking about this wrong? Is direct cost comparison the only factor to consider when evaluating unit/probe trades, or should you give some leeway based on lost income? I know a dual nexus toss can chrono in 8 probes pretty fast, but is it much of a loss to lose the chrono energy and mining time?
Also, would you have to kill more or less drones or scv's to be even? Or do you figure the trade value of all races mineral gatherers the same?
Just trying to learn to evaluate my harass trades so I know if I'm effective. Depends on how early in the game it is and if you kill probes mining minerals or gas. Gas is what protoss really need (we have an abundance of minerals quite early), and even though we will replace the gas-miners with mineral-miners we will lose mining-time on the gas, and especially in the early game when we need to get our sentries and stalkers out while techning that can be a real bitch. It's much better to kill off 2-3 probes and return later than to kill 8-10 straight up and lose your banshees though. Not to mention how annoying it is when i send a probe out to take a third and there are banshees there sniping it...
It's usually not worth it to lose the banshee, although sometimes these things happen. The big thing the banshee provides for you is Map Control. If your banshee flies into his main, kills the probes, then hangs out in the airspace behind it, he has to cower a few stalkers in his base (2-3) until he can get a phoenix or a cannon. And even with a cannon, you may still be able to find an angle. The lone banshee controls the position of his army as long as it lives.
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How can i through scouting see, if the terran is doing an 2 rax scv all in, of if he is expanding? When i see no gas at 15-17 food, im allways preparing for a all in, but if the terran just expands, im allready behind.
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On December 10 2011 02:37 Joh wrote:
How can i through scouting see, if the terran is doing an 2 rax scv all in, of if he is expanding? When i see no gas at 15-17 food, im allways preparing for a all in, but if the terran just expands, im allready behind.
This is tricky, the key is to constantly probe the front with a stalker. Keep poking. If he's smart and is only showing one rax (no addon) behind a wall and only a few marines, just try and kite or damage the depot.
The key is to MAKE him show you what he's doing. If he brings up a marauder or a lot of marines, you know it's rax.
If he only has the few marines, you can probably guess it's an expand.
Also, keeping that stalker at his base lets you know when he's moving out, giving you more time to prepare.
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On December 10 2011 02:37 Joh wrote:
How can i through scouting see, if the terran is doing an 2 rax scv all in, of if he is expanding? When i see no gas at 15-17 food, im allways preparing for a all in, but if the terran just expands, im allready behind.
Go gate, robo, gate. As soon as the robo finishes, send an observer to his natural to see if he's expanding. If he is, let the nexus you already started finish, otherwise cancel it and drop another gate or two.
Or wait, you may not play protoss, in which case I don't know 
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On December 07 2011 05:26 WeedRa wrote:
How can i disable the rain on shattered, or generally wheather effects?
Is there a special command for the variables.txt?
I've had it disabled but somehow it is back and it really distracts me... i have all graphic settings on low except textures (high) and effects (med).
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PVZ question:
Is it better to go for HTs instead of collosus? But collosus forces vikings, instead of medivacs. But I see pros, like White-Ra go for HT. Could someone explain? Tyty
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On December 10 2011 04:44 WeedRa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 05:26 WeedRa wrote:
How can i disable the rain on shattered, or generally wheather effects?
Is there a special command for the variables.txt?
I've had it disabled but somehow it is back and it really distracts me... i have all graphic settings on low except textures (high) and effects (med).
I think you have to use the galaxy editor to do that. Not 100% sure though.
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On December 10 2011 04:56 nhaita wrote:PVZ question: Is it better to go for HTs instead of collosus? But collosus forces vikings, instead of medivacs. But I see pros, like White-Ra go for HT. Could someone explain? Tyty
I'd rather have him make medivacs, they're easily sniped with feedback. I don't like colossus in PvT, but someone told me a few posts ago that they are awesome.
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On December 10 2011 04:56 nhaita wrote:PVZ question: Is it better to go for HTs instead of collosus? But collosus forces vikings, instead of medivacs. But I see pros, like White-Ra go for HT. Could someone explain? Tyty
Doesn't seem like a PvZ question...
Anyways, You're look at the match-up too one-dimensionally. There's a lot more to the choice of colossus vs temps then just which is better. They're both good aoe damage dealers that force counters to be made by the Terran. Eventually in your end game composition you want some mix of both. It's more a matter of which tech path you take and what else that opens up for you.
If you go colossus first your going to be opening with a robo, which means you get an observer out quickly and can make immortals. Maybe you want to put on some immortal pressure on his expansion, do a timing attack with immortals and sentries to try and take down his bunkers and force scvs to be pulled.
If you go for templar first, then you are opening with a twilight council. you could open with DTs to slow down his push, or go for blink and try to do a lot of harassment and keep him in his base. Then you will probably transition into a zealot archon composition while you wait for storm to research and energy to build up.
Another thing to consider about a colossus army or a high templar army: colossus based play is much more of a macro game, try to make colossus and gateway units faster than the Terran, then you just A-move and see who wins. templar based armies will require more micro: getting good storms, splitting your temps to minimize emp damage, feedbacking ghosts/medivacs.
Also, tech switches between colossus and temps are a very strong tool for the protoss. you can open colossus and switch to temps, if he doesn't see it coming he will be very unprepared to deal with the temps and also over make vikings.
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On December 10 2011 04:58 Tobias wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 04:56 nhaita wrote:PVZ question: Is it better to go for HTs instead of collosus? But collosus forces vikings, instead of medivacs. But I see pros, like White-Ra go for HT. Could someone explain? Tyty I'd rather have him make medivacs, they're easily sniped with feedback. I don't like colossus in PvT, but someone told me a few posts ago that they are awesome.
You will pretty much never see a high level TvP go into late game without any colossi.
They scale perfectly with the protoss army (they get all ground upgrades) and the forced vikings/air upgrades/extra starports really cut into terran supply. Whether you get them before ht or after is stylistic/map dependent.
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If you see Z go 15 hatch and you open gateway, how fast should one expand? Like should I cut units/probes/tech etc to get a Nexus immediately or can I continue on w/ a 1-gate fe and get it around 30 food?
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Hi
I know its a noob question but how to order scv auto repair command?? click repair or press r ? Or point it to certain direction say damaged building or unit to repair after pressing r? 
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What is the optimal response in this situation?
I play zerg. My buddy plays random. We are around mid-high masters. If he gets protoss he always comes and places some cannons in my natural. What is the optimal response? I usually go 14/14 Do I pull drones if I see he starts placing pylons? If not what kind of units do I make? He usually follows up with stargate play. I have like 10 times better macro, but he plays reaally cheese and has really good micro. Please give me a couple solutions
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On December 10 2011 10:36 Holdinga wrote:What is the optimal response in this situation? I play zerg. My buddy plays random. We are around mid-high masters. If he gets protoss he always comes and places some cannons in my natural. What is the optimal response? I usually go 14/14 Do I pull drones if I see he starts placing pylons? If not what kind of units do I make? He usually follows up with stargate play. I have like 10 times better macro, but he plays reaally cheese and has really good micro. Please give me a couple solutions
If you are afraid of a protoss player putting cannons down, then as soon as you see the probe, have a drone attack it. If that probe puts down any pylons, take 3 drones from your mineral line and start attacking the pylon. This will prevent any cannons from going down and if he invests in more than 2-3 pylons, your speedlings should be able to easily run past his wall off. (Assuming he did a FFE)
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Should I try no gas 15 pool with pulling drones?
And I Dont think taking a ninja base is the best choice...
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On December 10 2011 10:36 Holdinga wrote:What is the optimal response in this situation? I play zerg. My buddy plays random. We are around mid-high masters. If he gets protoss he always comes and places some cannons in my natural. What is the optimal response? I usually go 14/14 Do I pull drones if I see he starts placing pylons? If not what kind of units do I make? He usually follows up with stargate play. I have like 10 times better macro, but he plays reaally cheese and has really good micro. Please give me a couple solutions
Is that 14hatch/14pool or 14gas/14pool?
If you know he tends to cannon rush you should follow his probe with a drone. That way he can't make pylon wall for his cannon.
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EPT
