EPTWhat build should I do? Any good build which is similar enough to 3rax that my practice wont be wasted? Like a 2rax expand or something?
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Autofire2
Pakistan290 Posts
What build should I do? Any good build which is similar enough to 3rax that my practice wont be wasted? Like a 2rax expand or something? | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
On September 19 2011 11:05 Autofire2 wrote: So I'm practicing with 3rax into push + expand purely as a way to fix my mechanics to some extent (only silver). Im playing against friends and the computer, using Adrenaline seeds benchmarks. But he himself says this isn't a good build on the ladder. What build should I do? Any good build which is similar enough to 3rax that my practice wont be wasted? Like a 2rax expand or something? Pick an opening per matchup imo, they all have such different requirements that you cant' really learn a ton by doing the same one in 3 different match ups you'll just end up making a build that's bad against everything with all the small adjustments you want to make. Vs Protoss 2 rax pressure (reactor on first tech lab on 2nd) into expand is very decent, it gives you a good idea of how to accomplish pressure at a good timing (aligned with concussive) while still having a long-term focus (the expansion) as well as some basic economy management. Vs Zerg Imo a reactor hellion opening is reasonably focused, I would usually recommend 2 barracks marine pressure but sometimes you'll just kill your opponent outright and won't learn anything. Vs Terran 1-1-1 with some kind of banshee opening maybe, gives you good scouting information and everything you need for the mid-game. | ||
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Strandedhermit
1 Post
Why isn't a FE with stalkers good against terran? It doesn't seem fair that FE is only really plausible against zerg... | ||
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Autofire2
Pakistan290 Posts
a) vs. Zerg, aren't hellions getting a massive nerf? I actually have a little more exp with 2 rax expand anyway... b) are you sure i should be doing 1/1/1? I tried it for a long time and it just doesnt seem...i dunno..."meaty" enough. Or is marine/tank/viking still the only way to play TvT? If so, can you please tell me a little more about what I should be doing in terms of early defense, grabbing my nat etc. If its not appropriate to this thread, can you link me to an explanation? Cheers! | ||
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eugalp
United States203 Posts
On September 19 2011 13:18 Strandedhermit wrote: I imagine this has already been asked before somewhere in here, but, Why isn't a FE with stalkers good against terran? It doesn't seem fair that FE is only really plausible against zerg... Not sure what you mean. FE is one of the most common builds vs terran right now. Usually it is one gate FE although 15 Nexus is also doable on large maps. | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
On September 19 2011 13:26 Autofire2 wrote: Thanks a ton Ding. Quick questions though: a) vs. Zerg, aren't hellions getting a massive nerf? I actually have a little more exp with 2 rax expand anyway... b) are you sure i should be doing 1/1/1? I tried it for a long time and it just doesnt seem...i dunno..."meaty" enough. Or is marine/tank/viking still the only way to play TvT? If so, can you please tell me a little more about what I should be doing in terms of early defense, grabbing my nat etc. If its not appropriate to this thread, can you link me to an explanation? Cheers! To answer a) Blueflame is getting nerfed not regular hellions. The point of the reactor hellion expand is to just get enough map control to put down your expansion then go straight into marine/tank like you would see in a standard TvZ, not to continue building hellions so the blue flame shouldn't particular affect that build. b) Marine tank viking hasn't really been the only way to play for a while because of all the mech and blueflame going around, but I feel like 1-1-1 is a good opening regardless of what you're going for in the mid-game, the trends at the moment seem to be 1 barracks expands, 1-1-1's or 1-1-expand-1. With different add-ons depending on whether you want a blueflame, marine tank or banshees if you're nasty. Here are some reference games: Polt Vs Top GSL Code S Round of 4: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors5/vod/66105 Top goes for 1-1-Expand-1, Polt 1 bases, contains then expands later. SC Vs Teaja GSL Code A Round of 16: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors5/vod/65924 SC goes 1-1-Expand-1, Taeja 1-1-1 Expands with blueflame. If you're having particular problems with pressure you might need to be more specific, any kind of one basing should be easily holdable with a bunker at the top of your ramp and your air advantage. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2597 Posts
On September 18 2011 23:13 Kambing wrote: The testing I did a bit ago suggested that the ordering was slightly smarter than simple age. For example, I morphed an entire hatches worth of larva (while my other hatches were full), waited for larva to repop, then morphed all the larva at all that hatches. The new eggs ended up being shuffled into the middle of the overall selection. This even happens with general unit selection. I just made 3 roaches in a test map, and selecting all 3 gives me an order of roach 2, roach 1, and roach 3 (where the roaches are numbered in order of creation). The ordering is stable, too, in the sense if I select any subset of the roaches, their ordering is maintained. EDIT: just re-ran my old larva test. I made 3 hatches, waited for each hatch to accumulate 3 larva, then made a unit at each hatch in sequence so that the next set of larva that popped were evenly distributed amongst the hatches. I then used up all 3 larva at one test hatch, waited for them to repop, and examined the selection of larva when all hatches were selected. 2 of the larva from the test hatch were at the bottom of the selection, but 1 larva ended up being 3rd in the selection which suggests something more than simple time is being used to determine selection priority. I stand corrected, thanks for the information! It's sad, though, that it's even more complicated and random-seeming. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2597 Posts
On September 18 2011 18:06 xEther wrote: say u have blink stalkers in a hotkey, can u tab through ure group, by pressing a button so u can blink out, or must u look and click to blink micro? thx 'ure' is wrong on so many levels simultaneously it's just adorable. Anyhow, to answer what I think you're asking: Tab is used to switch between unit types within a selected group, so you can switch to your Stalkers and then hit blink and blink them back. However, if you're asking if it's possible to select a particular Stalker by tabbing to it, then no. Just keep an eye on your Stalkers in the front of your attacking group, and watch which ones are being focused down by your opponent. As their shields approach zero, select them manually and blink back. In larger fights, you can just select whole rows of Stalkers as several in the row start getting low, since it's not possible to individually blink back more than a certain number depending on your hand speed. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2597 Posts
On September 19 2011 14:23 Ryder. wrote: What is the best opener people use PvT (as toss) on medium sized maps? Is 2 gate robo still viable? 1 Gate expo can have some troubles with 2 rax (or so I hear) and 3 gate expo seems popular but I like getting the robo for observer...what does everyone think? I like starting with the intention of going 1 Gate Robo expand, but then deviate based on scouting. If my opponent is obviously going gasless expo (1 rax, no gas), then I respond with 1 Gate expand before getting my Robo. If my opponent is going for early rax pressure, then I like to get three Gates and expand. My reasoning is that I have a lot of trouble holding early pushes with only a Gate and a Robo, but find it quite easy to fight rax units with GW units in smallish early game numbers. And if he's early expanding I have no need for an early Observer because of his delayed tech. | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
On September 19 2011 20:55 AmericanUmlaut wrote: I like starting with the intention of going 1 Gate Robo expand, but then deviate based on scouting. If my opponent is obviously going gasless expo (1 rax, no gas), then I respond with 1 Gate expand before getting my Robo. If my opponent is going for early rax pressure, then I like to get three Gates and expand. My reasoning is that I have a lot of trouble holding early pushes with only a Gate and a Robo, but find it quite easy to fight rax units with GW units in smallish early game numbers. And if he's early expanding I have no need for an early Observer because of his delayed tech. Thanks man, very precise post. So if they are going for a 2 rax tech lab and reactor push or marine scv push (say like 5-6 scv), would you go 3 gate expo? I really like 1 gate robo except if they do marine scv push your robo is pretty useless :/ | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2597 Posts
On September 19 2011 21:36 Ryder. wrote: Thanks man, very precise post. So if they are going for a 2 rax tech lab and reactor push or marine scv push (say like 5-6 scv), would you go 3 gate expo? I really like 1 gate robo except if they do marine scv push your robo is pretty useless :/ I will be perfectly honest. If they are going for a Marine SCV push, I will usually transition into losing my whole fucking base. I encounter that rarely and as a result I'm really bad at reading it unless they're really blatant, like going 11/11 rax where I can see. In any case, that's a build with its own response, because the battle is going to play out before you can get WG tech. I would recommend you do some searching to find a thread where the correct defense of this sort of early cheese is discussed instead of depending on my advice (for what it's worth, I usually chrono out Sentries to hold them off as long as possible and chop a few units off to kill with Zealots each time they come up the ramp). But any kind of rax push (including 2 rax tech lab/reactor or reactor/tech lab) that will hit after or just before WG completes can be held with 3-Gate expo in my experience. The extra production cycle that you get when the research completes gives you a surge of units that you can build after seeing what's coming (as opposed to ordering them thirty seconds before you need them), so you should have a more valuable army than the attacking Terran that is also tailored to a certain extent to counter the attacking units. You'll need to practice controlling your units correctly, since a lot of the battle depends on getting off good forcefields, keeping your Stalkers safe, and knowing what attacks require a probe pull to hold off, but in general I think a 3-Gate expo is safe against agression in the timing window immediately following that first warp-in. | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
On September 19 2011 22:01 AmericanUmlaut wrote: I will be perfectly honest. If they are going for a Marine SCV push, I will usually transition into losing my whole fucking base. I encounter that rarely and as a result I'm really bad at reading it unless they're really blatant, like going 11/11 rax where I can see. In any case, that's a build with its own response, because the battle is going to play out before you can get WG tech. I would recommend you do some searching to find a thread where the correct defense of this sort of early cheese is discussed instead of depending on my advice (for what it's worth, I usually chrono out Sentries to hold them off as long as possible and chop a few units off to kill with Zealots each time they come up the ramp). But any kind of rax push (including 2 rax tech lab/reactor or reactor/tech lab) that will hit after or just before WG completes can be held with 3-Gate expo in my experience. The extra production cycle that you get when the research completes gives you a surge of units that you can build after seeing what's coming (as opposed to ordering them thirty seconds before you need them), so you should have a more valuable army than the attacking Terran that is also tailored to a certain extent to counter the attacking units. You'll need to practice controlling your units correctly, since a lot of the battle depends on getting off good forcefields, keeping your Stalkers safe, and knowing what attacks require a probe pull to hold off, but in general I think a 3-Gate expo is safe against agression in the timing window immediately following that first warp-in. Champion, thanks dude. Your point of starting with 1 gate robo and working from there makes lots of sense, so I'll try keep that in mind. | ||
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Taxo
Belgium23 Posts
I have seen the day 9 daily on reprioritizing things. I have noticed that my larva injects arn't good enough so I want to focus on that. My question is: what do you think about just practicing it against the AI instead of putting your points at risk? Is this good enough if you only want to learn a mechanic? Thanks in advance (repost) | ||
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Johnzee
United States216 Posts
On September 20 2011 00:49 Taxo wrote: Hi, I have seen the day 9 daily on reprioritizing things. I have noticed that my larva injects arn't good enough so I want to focus on that. My question is: what do you think about just practicing it against the AI instead of putting your points at risk? Is this good enough if you only want to learn a mechanic? Thanks in advance (repost) No one in physical sports goes out and plays real games to "practice" all the time. They shoot free-throws, swing a club on empty grass, or run laps. This is the equivalent of practicing mechanics against the AI. Essential for building muscle and mind instinct while focusing on one task without distractions. Eventually you'll have to ladder to put those skills to the test, of course - and that will teach you how to use that mechanic under pressure. But you must learn how to execute the mechanic properly in the first place to make it effective under pressure, and practicing against the AI will help you perfect your mechanic before moving to the next level. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On September 20 2011 00:49 Taxo wrote: Hi, I have seen the day 9 daily on reprioritizing things. I have noticed that my larva injects arn't good enough so I want to focus on that. My question is: what do you think about just practicing it against the AI instead of putting your points at risk? Is this good enough if you only want to learn a mechanic? Thanks in advance (repost) I think that's a fine way to exercise and learn a mechanic. You're still going to have more to learn in a real game (humans tend to be more distracting than AIs when trying to get a perfect inject), but practicing against an AI first is a great idea. | ||
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
On September 20 2011 01:25 Blazinghand wrote: I think that's a fine way to exercise and learn a mechanic. You're still going to have more to learn in a real game (humans tend to be more distracting than AIs when trying to get a perfect inject), but practicing against an AI first is a great idea. play team games!no one gives a **** about team games, they give opportunities for lotss of distraction and doesn't put ladder points at risk (: | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
On September 19 2011 20:36 saaaa wrote: What is the most powerful stim+Siegetank build order? anyone? | ||
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EiNiS
Sweden72 Posts
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