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On August 03 2011 14:16 Soluhwin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 13:45 Probe1 wrote:
What's the obvious zerg counter to zealot archon? I'd say roach/baneling, or possibly even pure roaches would do fine. Though, in terms of what would be the best at killing it, counter-chart style, then brood-lords are the way to go.
Pure roach is the most direct and obvious counter. If you want to get fancy you can do roach/baneling or roach/infestor, but that those options will take additional micro to use effectively and you can easily screw up (poor infestor control, lose banelings to archons) that it's much safer to go pure roach. That's why one of the upcoming popular PvZ builds now is to go stargate/phoenix into chargelot/archon, with the stargate play trying to force the zerg away from roaches.
I actually disagree on brood lords being the technical counter to zealot/archon, I find that archons do very well against brood lords because they're tanky and have splash that helps deal with broodlings.
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On August 03 2011 13:21 Peterblue wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:28 Soulforged wrote:
Okay, simple situation: PvZ, I'm going FFE into fast stargate with 1 void ray \ 3 phoenix; if the zerg has taken a quick 3rd, and I've killed some drones\queens\forced spores, can I take a 3rd base off only 2 gateways production(zerg's saturating his own 3rd atm)? Or should I do it only on a map with "easy" 3rd, like LT?
I usually try to stop stargate production and grab robo/3rd after zerg secures his 3rd, quickly adding to 5 gates/colossi afterwards, perhaps I need to do it before taking 3rd and wait for at least one colossi? For the first part of the question - It depends on the map. On LT(I never FFE there) you can, although you need to tack on extra gates ASAP, especially if it gets scouted. If your opponent is doing 2 base roach/hydra(more likely) or roach/infestor(less likely) pressure you ARE going to die, because you simply don't have the stuff to hold it. Obviously you just get plain countered by a roach hydra attack and a roach infestor attack is going to bust your FFE, and kill any gateway units you have, as well as snipe a base or two(and you can't pull probes because of FG).
Wait, so you want to get a 3rd AND tech to colossi at the same time while being only on 2 gateways? This is definitely not a good idea, you really need more gateways and a bigger gateway army to deal with any sort of attack. Getting a colossus or 2 out without much gateway support is not going to make you invincible.
The counter point to this though is that there really is no "risk" in trying to take additional expansions earlier than usual in PvZ, since you're limited by gas and normally have a lot of excess minerals. If you try to expand and the zerg forces a cancel, there's really no loss to you, and if you do manage to get it set up with cannons, then that's a huge win.
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Hello, I was once a top 8 diamond Protoss, now I switched to zerg. I'm having trouble with my infestor use, namely with Neural Parasite. When do I use it? Collossi, Thors, Battle cruisers.... that kind of stuff. However, it seems everytime I neural parasite something, my Infestor just gets sniped and basically spend 100/150 on stopping one shot of the enemy's power house unit. My Micro is par to use infestors well, I think, I just don't know how to protect them while they're Neural Parasiting things. Does anyone have tips for me?
My Fungal Growth useage is good I think, I don't really need tips on it. However, I would like some knowledge on when is the right time to burst some energy into Infested Terrans.
Thanks!
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Ok for some reason my questions are consistently overlooked, so I'm reposting one from a couple pages back: Does anyone know of the exact build or a replay to demonstrate the six gate into 2 stargate phoneix which is popular in korea? My GOD does it look fun!
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On August 04 2011 01:21 TrueSyzygy wrote:
Hello, I was once a top 8 diamond Protoss, now I switched to zerg. I'm having trouble with my infestor use, namely with Neural Parasite. When do I use it? Collossi, Thors, Battle cruisers.... that kind of stuff. However, it seems everytime I neural parasite something, my Infestor just gets sniped and basically spend 100/150 on stopping one shot of the enemy's power house unit. My Micro is par to use infestors well, I think, I just don't know how to protect them while they're Neural Parasiting things. Does anyone have tips for me?
My Fungal Growth useage is good I think, I don't really need tips on it. However, I would like some knowledge on when is the right time to burst some energy into Infested Terrans.
Thanks!
Neural Parasite is very situational. for example, it's not a good time to use NP against a collosus/blinkstalker army (infestors are still a good unit against this, but with fungal, not NP as they are easily sniped).
Against Protoss + Show Spoiler +You want to target Immortals, possibly Archons if those are his power units, and high templar if you can manage it (waste his storms/feedback on his own units).
Against most other comps you just want to use fungal. Infested terrans are probably only needed for harass, or if youre doing a Destiny style 2 base burrowed infested terran nexus snipe. Oh, and if he's harassing with voids, although fungal is preferred for that too.
Against Terran + Show Spoiler +You want to Neural parasite against heavy mech, Thors mostly. Possibly tanks in other situations, but only if he doesn't have a lot/youre out of range of the other ones (for example, his tanks are staggered back, so NP the first one so it turns areound and fires at the ones in the back, meanwhile your infestors are safe). Otherwise fungal is generally better against things like banshees, bio, vikings, hellions, ghosts, ect. I guess NP battlecruisers if he manages to get some.
Again, infested terrans are probably better used as harassment rather than fighting units, if you can sneak infestors into his mineral line and drop a bunch of infested terrans that's always a plus. However, they can be good for killing fungaled medivacs and banshees.
The key to good NP useage is to have the units protected basically, by roaches, ultras, and/or ling/baneling in front and engaged, and to use it against comps where they arent easily sniped. Therefore, don't use it against blink stalkers, probably not against Terran if he has ghosts, and not usually against tanks either. Try to keep the Infestors in the very back. NP has a range of 9, and that's where you want your infestors, at maximum range. Alternatively, just have so many infestors that you can NP everything.
On August 04 2011 01:23 lizzard_warish wrote:
Ok for some reason my questions are consistently overlooked, so I'm reposting one from a couple pages back: Does anyone know of the exact build or a replay to demonstrate the six gate into 2 stargate phoneix which is popular in korea? My GOD does it look fun!
Maybe that question is overlooked because people can't provide/don't know the answer? I certainly don't.
My own question: what does "TLPD" stand for? I can't figure it out. I keep thinking it's TeamLiquid Police Department...
lol Thank you so much. IThat was probably the noobest question on this thread but I counld not figure it out.
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On August 04 2011 01:40 galtdunn wrote:
My own question: what does "TLPD" stand for? I can't figure it out. I keep thinking it's TeamLiquid Police Department...
Team Liquid Player Database.
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Hey guys!
What's the best way to hold off a sixpool as protoss on a 4 players map? Assuming my opening were:
- 9 pylon
- 9 scout
- 12 gate
and I scout him second or last.
What I usually do is once I scout the early pool I add a forge to my ramp to wall it off asap and start building a cannon behind it. This works for me in about 50% the cases depending on when I scout his base. If I scout him second or last this normally means that lings break through my wall before the canon is up and I lose.
What I'm looking for is a 100% safe way to fend off a sixpool on 4 player maps. An educational replay would me aawwwwwwwsome! Thx guys I appreciate your help.
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On August 04 2011 03:11 ve1ocity wrote:
Hey guys!
What's the best way to hold off a sixpool as protoss on a 4 players map? Assuming my opening were:
- 9 pylon
- 9 scout
- 12 gate
and I scout him second or last.
What I usually do is once I scout the early pool I add a forge to my ramp to wall it off asap and start building a cannon behind it. This works for me in about 50% the cases depending on when I scout his base. If I scout him second or last this normally means that lings break through my wall before the canon is up and I lose.
What I'm looking for is a 100% safe way to fend off a sixpool on 4 player maps. An educational replay would me aawwwwwwwsome! Thx guys I appreciate your help.
From liquipedia article on how to defend a 6 pool as protoss:
For Protoss players this can be a little trickier. Hopefully your first Pylon was positioned near the choke; build a Gateway on 12 to leave a one-space gap. Continue making Probes until 14, then build a second Gateway as well as a Zealot out of the first Gateway. The Zerglings will be on your doorstep around this point, so move two Probes to the gap at your choke and try to keep the lings out until the Zealot warps in. Then, pull 4 Probes and use the Zealot to kill off the remaining Zerglings while training a Zealot at each Gateway.
The "proper" post 1.1 patch strat from Mani:
12-gate every time - even if you 10gate zealots will not be out in time, not even close, so only go 10gate as a standard opener if you're looking to do some early aggression.
You're gonna want to wall-in with your gateway in front, and not your pylon. When you scout the 6-pool after getting your 9pylon immediately throw down a forge and block up your entrance with forge/gateway diagonally to each other. This will leave a small gap where lings can squeeze through which you will have to block with a pylon. But that's okay because the position of the pylon means only 1 zergling can attack it. Cannons will be up before your gateway or forge dies.
I don't have replays. Check youtube tho. Hope this helps!
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How many queens should I have for injections?
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On August 04 2011 04:00 sgtjimmy wrote:
How many queens should I have for injections?
1 for each hatch duhhh.
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On August 04 2011 04:02 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 04:00 sgtjimmy wrote:
How many queens should I have for injections? 1 for each hatch duhhh.
not was i getting at, 1 for each hatch seems a little over the top, and ive never scene pro's go 1 queen per each hatch when they are on 4-5 bases
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On August 04 2011 04:07 sgtjimmy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 04:02 GinDo wrote:On August 04 2011 04:00 sgtjimmy wrote:
How many queens should I have for injections? 1 for each hatch duhhh. not was i getting at, 1 for each hatch seems a little over the top, and ive never scene pro's go 1 queen per each hatch when they are on 4-5 bases
Every pro goes 1 for each hatch. The only reason why you wouldn't is if you can't keep up with your injects so you use 1 queen on more than one hatch ie: an inbase macro hatch without queen on it
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From personally experience it depends on what unit composition you're aiming for. 3 queens should cover most situations but if you're going to be going serious sauron zerg having 5 injects to help mass zerglings doesn't hurt since zerglings are not supply intensive. However if you're doing a roach based composition then the extra queen might be a hinderence.
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Watching IdrA's stream he is playing with his hotkeys set to invisible, why would you want to do that?
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On August 04 2011 04:24 ZaaaaaM wrote:
Watching IdrA's stream he is playing with his hotkeys set to invisible, why would you want to do that?
1. He's been playing so long/so much he doesn't need to see them to know what they are.
2. He's a cool kid so instead of having them on "unclickable" he has them on invisible.
3. No one can see how he sets up his queens/units/buildings. See number 2.
But honestly he probably just didn't need to see them. I know I made mine unclickable because I would click them on accident sometimes, but pros shouldn't have accuracy problems like that. It's all preference.
And what Blazinghand said. Overall, they're all pretty minor reasons and isn't something that gives him an "advantage" over anyone.
Edit: lol Cecil. "That sounds like a terrible idea..."
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On August 04 2011 04:37 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 04:24 ZaaaaaM wrote:
Watching IdrA's stream he is playing with his hotkeys set to invisible, why would you want to do that? 1. He's been playing so long/so much he doesn't need to see them to know what they are. 2. He's a cool kid so instead of having them on "unclickable" he has them on invisible. 3. No one can see how he sets up his queens/units/buildings. See number 2. But honestly he probably just didn't need to see them. I know I made mine unclickable because I would click them on accident sometimes, but pros shouldn't have accuracy problems like that. It's all preference.
It's also possible that he wants the little extra bit of screen visibility that comes from not having those tabs showing.
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On August 04 2011 01:23 lizzard_warish wrote:
Ok for some reason my questions are consistently overlooked, so I'm reposting one from a couple pages back: Does anyone know of the exact build or a replay to demonstrate the six gate into 2 stargate phoneix which is popular in korea? My GOD does it look fun!
That sounds like a terrible idea to me... But if you want to I suggest Forge FE into 6 Gate. Forge FE, then make 6 Gates. Attack. Then lay down 2 Stargates. There isn't a build for it, sounds like you just do a 6 Gate, and if it fails go double Stargate.
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TvP, I scout a double gas toss and he doesn't FE. I continue with my marine marauder from 2 rax and go back to scout before a throw down another CC. I don't see any twilight council, starport, or enough gateways to warrant the 1base 2 gas play; therefore, I, correctly, assume he's proxying a starport somewhere on the map.
Assuming you see a double gas toss and you scout either a starport or the hints of a starport, what should Terran's response be? Engie bay? Vikings? More marines?
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Italy12248 Posts
This question isn't particularly simple, but still it doesn't warrant it's own thread so here goes: in PvZ i'm often able to deny/kill his third with void rays off forge expand or 1gate expand mc style; at this point i'm on 2 bases, have a good worker count (50+) and 5ish gateways, but not much tech other than the stargate, and i don't really know what my next step should be: taking a third vs a 2 base zerg really makes no sense, so i should probably opt for some kind of 2 base timing, but other than that i don't know what i should go for.
Since i often go pretty heavy on the stargate units (3 voids and a few phoenixes) i usually force hydras, so colossus is the logical next step, but i'm unsure wether i can just go kill the zerg when i have 4 or so colossi, or take a delayed third and play a longer game. What should i look for to make the decision of allining vs taking another base?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On August 04 2011 05:08 xylidine wrote:
TvP, I scout a double gas toss and he doesn't FE. I continue with my marine marauder from 2 rax and go back to scout before a throw down another CC. I don't see any twilight council, starport, or enough gateways to warrant the 1base 2 gas play; therefore, I, correctly, assume he's proxying a starport somewhere on the map.
Assuming you see a double gas toss and you scout either a starport or the hints of a starport, what should Terran's response be? Engie bay? Vikings? More marines?
The goal of the Void Ray is to provide sight and to kite with its range and cliff abuse, and allow the stalkers to do the same. It also wants to pick off spare buildings and walls. To deal with this, you need to shut down his kiting with a bunker or a viking while you wait for stimpack to finish.
If you think he's going void rays, you want to do a couple of things-- Put a bunker at the top of your ramp and put marines in it. The marines will have 6 range, and this will prevent his void ray from hanging out near you ramp kiting. If you haven't started stim, start it-- the void ray attack isn't over until you have stim. Build a turret if you really need it, but he'll just either avoid the turret or poke at it with stalkers using the void ray for sight. If you are going 1-1-1, make 1 viking, and it will prevent him from kiting. Don't actually go engage with the viking since he'll have stalkers, just use it to zone him away from your marines until you have stim / your CC is done. After your viking, you can make a medivac or something.
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EPT
