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On June 28 2011 00:43 bankai wrote:
In PvZ midgame, if you scout Zerg goes zergling/baneling/infestors, waaht is the proper response assuming I go for the typical sentry/stalker ball (to add on colossus/templar afterwards)?
I have heard its better to just turtle and get colossus/templar first, unless you have awesome micro to FF those banelings away??
If you started with a typical sentry/stalker ball, you have 3 options:
1) Turtle like you said, grab your 3rd base and get a deathball with colossus/HT.
2) 2 base colossus timing push. As soon as you scout out the Zerg doing this, stop making additional sentries, and get colossus as fast as you can. Hopefully you already have a robo. Attack off 2 bases with 2-3 colossus. Your goal is to hit before he has NP.
3) Tech to HT and battle with storm/feedback. I believe this is the best route to take, but it's also definitely the most difficult.
Personally I don't blindly start with a typical sentry/stalker ball (and the typical sentry/stalker ball begins with massing a lot of sentries). You actually don't want to get sentries against ling/bling/infestor, because while sentries are great against a newb zerg who just goes ling/bling, if he has infestors or drop tech for dropping banes on you by the time you attack, you auto-lose basically.
One of my standard openings now (which has become one of my favorite openings just because of how common ling/bling/infestor play is becoming recently) is to open fast 6 gate +1 attack with pure zealots while teching to templar archives. If they insist on going lings and refusing to make roaches, it's really hard for you to lose. You should always have the +1 attack over his armor advantage due to chrono and your zealots will always murder lings and little micro is required on your part. When he gets banes/infestors, you'll have archon/HT to battle those. Then if he does go roaches or mutas, you'll have blink stalkers ready.
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On June 28 2011 02:07 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 00:43 bankai wrote:
In PvZ midgame, if you scout Zerg goes zergling/baneling/infestors, waaht is the proper response assuming I go for the typical sentry/stalker ball (to add on colossus/templar afterwards)?
I have heard its better to just turtle and get colossus/templar first, unless you have awesome micro to FF those banelings away?? One of my standard openings now (which has become one of my favorite openings just because of how common ling/bling/infestor play is becoming recently) is to open fast 6 gate +1 attack with pure zealots while teching to templar archives. If they insist on going lings and refusing to make roaches, it's really hard for you to lose. You should always have the +1 attack over his armor advantage due to chrono and your zealots will always murder lings and little micro is required on your part. When he gets banes/infestors, you'll have archon/HT to battle those. Then if he does go roaches or mutas, you'll have blink stalkers ready.
Can you give me an idea when such a timing would hit? I've never seen a 'pure zealot' 6gate timing before. Wouldn't that get absolutely murdered by banelings?
You claimed you would have archons in time to deal with that, which is why I'm confused when your 6gate+1 timing would be. I assume standard ~9min mark? Would you really have sufficient archons to deal with that in time? And if you don't get sentries, I assume you get a relatively quick robo for scouting?
If you have time to upload a replay I would really appreciate it =]
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On June 28 2011 03:02 tuestresfat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 02:07 Anihc wrote:On June 28 2011 00:43 bankai wrote:
In PvZ midgame, if you scout Zerg goes zergling/baneling/infestors, waaht is the proper response assuming I go for the typical sentry/stalker ball (to add on colossus/templar afterwards)?
I have heard its better to just turtle and get colossus/templar first, unless you have awesome micro to FF those banelings away?? One of my standard openings now (which has become one of my favorite openings just because of how common ling/bling/infestor play is becoming recently) is to open fast 6 gate +1 attack with pure zealots while teching to templar archives. If they insist on going lings and refusing to make roaches, it's really hard for you to lose. You should always have the +1 attack over his armor advantage due to chrono and your zealots will always murder lings and little micro is required on your part. When he gets banes/infestors, you'll have archon/HT to battle those. Then if he does go roaches or mutas, you'll have blink stalkers ready. Can you give me an idea when such a timing would hit? I've never seen a 'pure zealot' 6gate timing before. Wouldn't that get absolutely murdered by banelings? You claimed you would have archons in time to deal with that, which is why I'm confused when your 6gate+1 timing would be. I assume standard ~9min mark? Would you really have sufficient archons to deal with that in time? And if you don't get sentries, I assume you get a relatively quick robo for scouting? If you have time to upload a replay I would really appreciate it =]
I open FFE and chrono out the warpgate tech upgrade all the way, with a few chronos on the +1 upgrade as well. Cut probes a bit after warpgate tech is started to throw up 5 more gateways. Then resume probe production and get the other 2-3 gases if you haven't done so already. I attack with my first 6 zealots, this is at around 8 minutes I think. I also start my twilight council right after I warp in those 6 zealots.
This build is designed against zergs who get the early 3rd in response to my FFE. It's ok against 2 base tech builds too because those usually are designed to punish a FFE that techs - but you don't tech, you're massing gateway units so you can easily hold off whatever they throw at you.
No one has ever had banelings ready to defend against those first 6 zealots. The people who have banelings by then were aiming for a baneling bust, in which case you should have scouted it and responded appropriately like any other FFE (more cannons, more walls, get sentries out, etc.).
If the zerg continues making lings, you continue making zealots. If they start using banelings, then you back off for a bit and wait for your templar archives to finish up, then you'll have enough gas for at least 3-4 archons if not more, and just roll over the zerg.
I don't get robo until after my first wave of warp-ins. Early game scouting is done by probes and your first zealot. Then the 6 zealot attack is essentially your next method of scouting. It'll force the zerg to reveal their tech path, and then you can respond appropriately. The only time when you can't force the zerg to reveal their tech path is if all they have is 2 base, lings, and a wall of spines. Then that means they are either doing 2 base infestor or 2 base muta, both of which you respond by getting blink and HT tech (and your council is already done now so it's easy to transition).
I'm still working on this build and my transitions have changed since, but if you want a basic idea of when this 6 gate +1 attack hits you can see my games vs vibe at MLG, I think I did it on shakuras and shattered.
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Why do people use vikings to counter collusus instead of banshees, considering banshees have more dps and are the " counter " in blizzards opinion.
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On June 28 2011 04:15 Geordie wrote:
Why do people use vikings to counter collusus instead of banshees, considering banshees have more dps and are the " counter " in blizzards opinion.
Banshees have shorter range than Vikings and thus are more vulnerable to blink stalkers.
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On June 28 2011 04:15 Geordie wrote:
Why do people use vikings to counter collusus instead of banshees, considering banshees have more dps and are the " counter " in blizzards opinion.
2 main reasons:
1) Range. Vikings have 9 range, banshees only have 6. This makes it much easier for vikings to kill colossus without getting killed themselves by stalkers.
2) Ease of production. Vikings have a much shorter build time, and can be 2 at a time from reactored starports. Banshees build slowly and require a tech lab. To get the same amount of banshees as vikings at X time it would require many more additional starports.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On June 28 2011 04:23 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 04:15 Geordie wrote:
Why do people use vikings to counter collusus instead of banshees, considering banshees have more dps and are the " counter " in blizzards opinion. 2 main reasons: 1) Range. Vikings have 9 range, banshees only have 6. This makes it much easier for vikings to kill colossus without getting killed themselves by stalkers. 2) Ease of production. Vikings have a much shorter build time, and can be 2 at a time from reactored starports. Banshees build slowly and require a tech lab. To get the same amount of banshees as vikings at X time it would require many more additional starports.
This is super correct. The infrastructure for mass banshee production is difficult to build and not as useful at making medivacs for the cost. Also, there is the problem of micro (minor though it may be), which is that banshees auto-focus things that can/do shoot back at them, such as stalkers, whereas vikings will gladly fire away at colossi without as much micro (not that it's difficult to click on the massive unit to begin with).
The range really does help, though, and it forces the protoss player to be much more cautious in his positioning.
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Are pros allowed to use custom macros/button configs in tournament play?
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On June 28 2011 04:51 sLiniss wrote:
Are pros allowed to use custom macros/button configs in tournament play?
They are allowed to change their hotkeys using the ingame thing most of the time if not all the time. I'm not sure what you mean by macros? Anything that needs to be installed on a machine isn't normally allowed.
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1.how many minerals (%) and gas (%) does cancelling gives you?
2. Are professional players allowed to listen to music while playing? (not sc's music)
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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On June 28 2011 05:33 Reptilia wrote:
1.how many minerals (%) and gas (%) does cancelling gives you?
2. Are professional players allowed to listen to music while playing? (not sc's music)
1. 75% of minerals and gas are refunded
2. Yes they can listen to their iPods 
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I am having some problems vs terran as protoss. I am using a 2 gate robo expand (early observer to scout). I normally get around 2 collosus up when I have 2 bases up and fully running.
I've been finding that I am very suseptable around the 2 collosus mark to mass marauder stim pushes. Charge isn't up by this point and while ff and guardians shield help I normally lose at least 1 collosus during combat in which case I lose since I can't replace as quickly as the maurders and marines are coming in. Likewise normally the terran does a marine drop behind my lines while this occurs and I can't stop it since all my forces are needed to stop the mass bio ball knocking at my door. Blink is great and all if they drop one or two marauders in and stim up they don't do too much.
I've been experimenting with my own prism drops into his base when combat starts but I find they really don't do much until charge is up. At best I get a few supply depots which while nice isn't nearly as devestating as the drop he is doing on me.
Any advice?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On June 28 2011 07:28 Greenduck wrote:
I am having some problems vs terran as protoss. I am using a 2 gate robo expand (early observer to scout). I normally get around 2 collosus up when I have 2 bases up and fully running.
I've been finding that I am very suseptable around the 2 collosus mark to mass marauder stim pushes. Charge isn't up by this point and while ff and guardians shield help I normally lose at least 1 collosus during combat in which case I lose since I can't replace as quickly as the maurders and marines are coming in. Likewise normally the terran does a marine drop behind my lines while this occurs and I can't stop it since all my forces are needed to stop the mass bio ball knocking at my door. Blink is great and all if they drop one or two marauders in and stim up they don't do too much.
I've been experimenting with my own prism drops into his base when combat starts but I find they really don't do much until charge is up. At best I get a few supply depots which while nice isn't nearly as devestating as the drop he is doing on me.
Any advice?
Thoughts include delaying your Colossus Range to have a stronger gateway army until you have 3 colossi, or getting blink instead of charge since charge isn't as necessary when fighting in a choke and using sentries, and getting a faster forge for +1 armor or +2 weapons.
I'd recommend reading through this excellent post on a 2gate robo expand into colossi.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196385
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On June 28 2011 03:27 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 03:02 tuestresfat wrote:On June 28 2011 02:07 Anihc wrote:On June 28 2011 00:43 bankai wrote:
In PvZ midgame, if you scout Zerg goes zergling/baneling/infestors, waaht is the proper response assuming I go for the typical sentry/stalker ball (to add on colossus/templar afterwards)?
I have heard its better to just turtle and get colossus/templar first, unless you have awesome micro to FF those banelings away?? One of my standard openings now (which has become one of my favorite openings just because of how common ling/bling/infestor play is becoming recently) is to open fast 6 gate +1 attack with pure zealots while teching to templar archives. If they insist on going lings and refusing to make roaches, it's really hard for you to lose. You should always have the +1 attack over his armor advantage due to chrono and your zealots will always murder lings and little micro is required on your part. When he gets banes/infestors, you'll have archon/HT to battle those. Then if he does go roaches or mutas, you'll have blink stalkers ready. Can you give me an idea when such a timing would hit? I've never seen a 'pure zealot' 6gate timing before. Wouldn't that get absolutely murdered by banelings? You claimed you would have archons in time to deal with that, which is why I'm confused when your 6gate+1 timing would be. I assume standard ~9min mark? Would you really have sufficient archons to deal with that in time? And if you don't get sentries, I assume you get a relatively quick robo for scouting? If you have time to upload a replay I would really appreciate it =] I open FFE and chrono out the warpgate tech upgrade all the way, with a few chronos on the +1 upgrade as well. Cut probes a bit after warpgate tech is started to throw up 5 more gateways. Then resume probe production and get the other 2-3 gases if you haven't done so already. I attack with my first 6 zealots, this is at around 8 minutes I think. I also start my twilight council right after I warp in those 6 zealots. This build is designed against zergs who get the early 3rd in response to my FFE. It's ok against 2 base tech builds too because those usually are designed to punish a FFE that techs - but you don't tech, you're massing gateway units so you can easily hold off whatever they throw at you. No one has ever had banelings ready to defend against those first 6 zealots. The people who have banelings by then were aiming for a baneling bust, in which case you should have scouted it and responded appropriately like any other FFE (more cannons, more walls, get sentries out, etc.). If the zerg continues making lings, you continue making zealots. If they start using banelings, then you back off for a bit and wait for your templar archives to finish up, then you'll have enough gas for at least 3-4 archons if not more, and just roll over the zerg. I don't get robo until after my first wave of warp-ins. Early game scouting is done by probes and your first zealot. Then the 6 zealot attack is essentially your next method of scouting. It'll force the zerg to reveal their tech path, and then you can respond appropriately. The only time when you can't force the zerg to reveal their tech path is if all they have is 2 base, lings, and a wall of spines. Then that means they are either doing 2 base infestor or 2 base muta, both of which you respond by getting blink and HT tech (and your council is already done now so it's easy to transition). I'm still working on this build and my transitions have changed since, but if you want a basic idea of when this 6 gate +1 attack hits you can see my games vs vibe at MLG, I think I did it on shakuras and shattered.
Sounds cool. Any chance of replays?
Edit: I looked all over mlg site, couldn't find you. Do you go by something else in-game?
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On June 28 2011 07:57 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 03:27 Anihc wrote:On June 28 2011 03:02 tuestresfat wrote:On June 28 2011 02:07 Anihc wrote:On June 28 2011 00:43 bankai wrote:
In PvZ midgame, if you scout Zerg goes zergling/baneling/infestors, waaht is the proper response assuming I go for the typical sentry/stalker ball (to add on colossus/templar afterwards)?
I have heard its better to just turtle and get colossus/templar first, unless you have awesome micro to FF those banelings away?? One of my standard openings now (which has become one of my favorite openings just because of how common ling/bling/infestor play is becoming recently) is to open fast 6 gate +1 attack with pure zealots while teching to templar archives. If they insist on going lings and refusing to make roaches, it's really hard for you to lose. You should always have the +1 attack over his armor advantage due to chrono and your zealots will always murder lings and little micro is required on your part. When he gets banes/infestors, you'll have archon/HT to battle those. Then if he does go roaches or mutas, you'll have blink stalkers ready. Can you give me an idea when such a timing would hit? I've never seen a 'pure zealot' 6gate timing before. Wouldn't that get absolutely murdered by banelings? You claimed you would have archons in time to deal with that, which is why I'm confused when your 6gate+1 timing would be. I assume standard ~9min mark? Would you really have sufficient archons to deal with that in time? And if you don't get sentries, I assume you get a relatively quick robo for scouting? If you have time to upload a replay I would really appreciate it =] I open FFE and chrono out the warpgate tech upgrade all the way, with a few chronos on the +1 upgrade as well. Cut probes a bit after warpgate tech is started to throw up 5 more gateways. Then resume probe production and get the other 2-3 gases if you haven't done so already. I attack with my first 6 zealots, this is at around 8 minutes I think. I also start my twilight council right after I warp in those 6 zealots. This build is designed against zergs who get the early 3rd in response to my FFE. It's ok against 2 base tech builds too because those usually are designed to punish a FFE that techs - but you don't tech, you're massing gateway units so you can easily hold off whatever they throw at you. No one has ever had banelings ready to defend against those first 6 zealots. The people who have banelings by then were aiming for a baneling bust, in which case you should have scouted it and responded appropriately like any other FFE (more cannons, more walls, get sentries out, etc.). If the zerg continues making lings, you continue making zealots. If they start using banelings, then you back off for a bit and wait for your templar archives to finish up, then you'll have enough gas for at least 3-4 archons if not more, and just roll over the zerg. I don't get robo until after my first wave of warp-ins. Early game scouting is done by probes and your first zealot. Then the 6 zealot attack is essentially your next method of scouting. It'll force the zerg to reveal their tech path, and then you can respond appropriately. The only time when you can't force the zerg to reveal their tech path is if all they have is 2 base, lings, and a wall of spines. Then that means they are either doing 2 base infestor or 2 base muta, both of which you respond by getting blink and HT tech (and your council is already done now so it's easy to transition). I'm still working on this build and my transitions have changed since, but if you want a basic idea of when this 6 gate +1 attack hits you can see my games vs vibe at MLG, I think I did it on shakuras and shattered. Sounds cool. Any chance of replays? Edit: I looked all over mlg site, couldn't find you. Do you go by something else in-game?
He is col.rsvp
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What Zerg that streams often has the best mechanics and harass multitasking?
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On June 28 2011 08:40 Emporio wrote:
What Zerg that streams often has the best mechanics and harass multitasking?
IdrA, cella, Phoenix, and sen have really nice streams for watching/learning this kind of play.
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Has any Protoss in SC2 matched the multi-task ability of Bisu in SC2? Such as assault on main base, 4 zealots attcking the 4th, DT in 3rd, corsairs hunting down overlords, and a storm/reaver drop happening all at the same time?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/42989_Bisu_vs_hyvaa/vod
Example of attacking 4 bases at the same time. 13:35
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does the terran Sensor Tower display creep tumors or only units?
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EPT
