EPTSimple Questions Simple Answers - Page 228
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On June 27 2011 17:28 Sated wrote: When scouting a Terran going for a quick reaper in PvT, should I be expecting them to tech using the tech-lab from the barracks (switching it with starport/factory) or should I be expecting them to quickly expand? I know reapers are kinda gas-heavy so I expect that this would slow any tech down considerably, so I'm leaning towards them tending to expand? Reapers are not gas heavy in the slightest. They cost 50 gas, and the tech lab can be used for anything afterwards. There is no way knowing what comes next, so your only option is to scout his front. If you see marauders, then you can be nearly sure he isn't teching to anything above barracks. If you see only a few marines and maybe a bunker, then theres a very good chance he's going straight for siege or banshees (be vary of hellions). Don't "expect" anything, know. | ||
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
I rarely seen it but I lost to every Terran who gone mech against me (Latest to Seige Tank, Hellion, Raven composition) cause I tried to do standard Colossus/Gateway/HT composition against it. Maybe Voidrays or Carriers will do the trick? | ||
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RockshellGW
93 Posts
Do people actually rely on the "center on last alert" function (default space bar)? If you use the last alert function after "nuclear launch detected" does it center on where the nuke will land? | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
Are 5 early queens for 2 hatches considered a gimmick or can it be seen as a viable defense versus hellion / no-cloak-banshee, or fourgate, instead of building spines? | ||
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Bitterblossm
Germany3 Posts
this is my first post/question but i dont want to open a new thread for this =) Im a Protoss player and want to play 3 different openings against the Races. For Zerg and Protoss, i have guides from Teamliquid onto strategies i like. But in the recommended Threads thread (  ) there is just a simple 3 Gate Pressure Expand strat against Terran. I honestly dont like this strategy and want to play 2 Gate Robo or 3 Gate Robo. In Ladder games, i do quite good w/o any bo's or something, but i whould love if somebody knows a good guide. I did not found a bo in the Liquipedia under pvt or general Openings, i used also forum search. Ty for ur help, excuse my english Bb | ||
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RockshellGW
93 Posts
On June 27 2011 21:46 Bitterblossm wrote: Hello Guys, this is my first post/question but i dont want to open a new thread for this =) Im a Protoss player and want to play 3 different openings against the Races. For Zerg and Protoss, i have guides from Teamliquid onto strategies i like. But in the recommended Threads thread ( ) there is just a simple 3 Gate Pressure Expand strat against Terran. I honestly dont like this strategy and want to play 2 Gate Robo or 3 Gate Robo. In Ladder games, i do quite good w/o any bo's or something, but i whould love if somebody knows a good guide. I did not found a bo in the Liquipedia under pvt or general Openings, i used also forum search. Ty for ur help, excuse my english Bb The reason there aren't any guides for that are because the 3 gate/1 gate expo is extremely strong, and the idea is not that you use the 3 gates all game long, in fact you don't really even /need/ to pressure. After you get your expansion up you're free to throw down your robotics as you please and still have an observer in time for any cloaked unit play. (if that's what you're really worried about) EDIT: Toastie's post was much more helpful! Do'h | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
On June 27 2011 21:12 [F_]aths wrote: Are there good general times when to take first and second gas for 15H15P or does it largely depend on matchup and map? Are 5 early queens for 2 hatches considered a gimmick or can it be seen as a viable defense versus hellion / no-cloak-banshee, or fourgate, instead of building spines? It is up to what you prefer, honestly, but I would trade 1 queen for a Spine Crawler. Queens have terrible DPS vs. Ground, and will mostly be used for blocking the ramp/path. I prefer going 3 Queen 2 Spine Crawler every game, as it is safe vs. Air 'cheese' and lets you drone up very hard. I suggest you play around with a few different combinations + Show Spoiler + Like for example: 2 Queen, 2 Crawler (gives you money for an extra sacable Ovie) 3 Queen, 1 Crawler 3 Queen, 2 Crawler 4 Queen 4 Queen + 1 Evo blocking 4 Queen, 1 Crawler 5 Queen Try not to make it any more expensive, or you'll be behind quite far. Also, take into account whether or not you need 1/2 extra Queen to keep your creepspread high. On June 27 2011 21:46 Bitterblossm wrote: Hello Guys, this is my first post/question but i dont want to open a new thread for this =) Im a Protoss player and want to play 3 different openings against the Races. For Zerg and Protoss, i have guides from Teamliquid onto strategies i like. But in the recommended Threads thread ( ) there is just a simple 3 Gate Pressure Expand strat against Terran. I honestly dont like this strategy and want to play 2 Gate Robo or 3 Gate Robo. In Ladder games, i do quite good w/o any bo's or something, but i whould love if somebody knows a good guide. I did not found a bo in the Liquipedia under pvt or general Openings, i used also forum search. Ty for ur help, excuse my english Bb I found it? Strat Page: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Protoss_Strategy#Vs._Terran_2 3 Gate Robo: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Gate_Robo http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Gate_Robo_into_Double_Forge Other Builds: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/10_Pylon_10_Gateway_Fast_Stalker http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stalker_Void_Ray_Build_(vs._Terran) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Gate_Fast_Immortal_(vs._Terran) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Gateway_Stargate_(vs._Terran) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/One_Base_Colossus_(vs._Terran) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dark_Templar_Fast_Expand_(vs._Terran) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Gate_FE_(vs_Terran) | ||
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Bitterblossm
Germany3 Posts
On June 27 2011 21:50 RushtheFront wrote: The reason there aren't any guides for that are because the 3 gate/1 gate expo is extremely strong, and the idea is not that you use the 3 gates all game long, in fact you don't really even /need/ to pressure. After you get your expansion up you're free to throw down your robotics as you please and still have an observer in time for any cloaked unit play. (if that's what you're really worried about) Is it true that i dont need to pressure? I read the threa about 3 gate agressive Expo and there the OP said that 2 or 3 Gate robo could work very well to if it fits your playstyle. The problem in my league, gold, is that i feel the opponenty just try to rush me with some bo's, and dont do the usual Terran play. So i often run into a large mm force with my innitial push. I have much problems in the PvT machup | ||
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Bitterblossm
Germany3 Posts
On June 27 2011 21:58 ToastieNL wrote: It is up to what you prefer, honestly, but I would trade 1 queen for a Spine Crawler. Queens have terrible DPS vs. Ground, and will mostly be used for blocking the ramp/path. I prefer going 3 Queen 2 Spine Crawler every game, as it is safe vs. Air 'cheese' and lets you drone up very hard. I suggest you play around with a few different combinations + Show Spoiler + Like for example: 2 Queen, 2 Crawler (gives you money for an extra sacable Ovie) 3 Queen, 1 Crawler 3 Queen, 2 Crawler 4 Queen 4 Queen + 1 Evo blocking 4 Queen, 1 Crawler 5 Queen Try not to make it any more expensive, or you'll be behind quite far. Also, take into account whether or not you need 1/2 extra Queen to keep your creepspread high. I found it? Strat Page: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Protoss_Strategy#Vs._Terran_2 3 Gate Robo: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Gate_Robo http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Gate_Robo_into_Double_Forge Other Builds: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/10_Pylon_10_Gateway_Fast_Stalker http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stalker_Void_Ray_Build_(vs._Terran) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Gate_Fast_Immortal_(vs._Terran) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Gateway_Stargate_(vs._Terran) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/One_Base_Colossus_(vs._Terran) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dark_Templar_Fast_Expand_(vs._Terran) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Gate_FE_(vs_Terran) Thank you for 3 Gate Robo: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Gate_Robo http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Gate_Robo_into_Double_Forge i honestly did not find it =) | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On June 27 2011 20:59 RushtheFront wrote: I have two, both related: Do people actually rely on the "center on last alert" function (default space bar)? If you use the last alert function after "nuclear launch detected" does it center on where the nuke will land? No, and no. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On June 27 2011 22:01 Bitterblossm wrote: Is it true that i dont need to pressure? I read the threa about 3 gate agressive Expo and there the OP said that 2 or 3 Gate robo could work very well to if it fits your playstyle. The problem in my league, gold, is that i feel the opponenty just try to rush me with some bo's, and dont do the usual Terran play. So i often run into a large mm force with my innitial push. I have much problems in the PvT machup If you go for 3gate robo on one base, you should get a sentry reasonable quickly to cut his army in two should he try to rush you. If you go for this build, and your opponent fast expands, you will need to put some pressure on him. That does not mean "attack" though. It could often men trying to pick off a marine, maybe some scvs if you can get around his bunkers. If you see an oppertunity to kill him though, go for it. If your opponent hasn't expanded, Then you have no need to pressure him. In fact, it could backfire badly if you do. Tech to collosus, or if you think you can hold it, get an expo. Edit: I should also point out that if I see him expand, I would do so right away myself, as its hard to catch up in economy otherwise. But then again, thats my playstyle. | ||
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vlnplyr
United States76 Posts
On June 27 2011 19:26 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: What is the best unit composition for Protoss against Terran who goes mech? I rarely seen it but I lost to every Terran who gone mech against me (Latest to Seige Tank, Hellion, Raven composition) cause I tried to do standard Colossus/Gateway/HT composition against it. Maybe Voidrays or Carriers will do the trick? Yes, you need to throw in some air. If the Terran is going strictly mech (Thor/Hellion), then he has virtually no AA (Thor sucks unless you clump your units). Additionally, remember that thor can only shoot ground OR air, not both simultaneously. Therefore, your ground army has a chance to get some good shots off before he can attack them. Now, if he has a lot of marines mixed in, then you need the colossus to roast them away also. Oh, and IMMORTALS!!! | ||
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TeddyTerran
United States1 Post
I'm thinking specifically of TvZ, where you can pretty much always expect a lot of lings. marauders provide a decent force to soak ling damage while tanks are firing. They also take up more room than thors per cost and can get rid of a lot of extra minerals that a mech build generates. Since they aren't built from factories they don't take up any siege tank building time. But what are the downsides? I looked at the mech strat for TvZ and marauders weren't mentioned. Even though they aren't mech and wont share upgrades I thought they would still be useful. I should note that I did not include hellions in my mech build, which may have been the reason i had excess minerals for marauders, but vs zerg I would think that tanks are there for the damage vs ground and anything else should just be trying to absorb as much as possible while protecting the tanks. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8279 Posts
On June 27 2011 19:26 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: What is the best unit composition for Protoss against Terran who goes mech? I rarely seen it but I lost to every Terran who gone mech against me (Latest to Seige Tank, Hellion, Raven composition) cause I tried to do standard Colossus/Gateway/HT composition against it. Maybe Voidrays or Carriers will do the trick? Personally I've found that a general gateway collosus build works for a while. If he sieges up outside your natural, your best bet is to get as big of a surround as you can get. Make sure to get blink. The main issue with terran mech is its mobility, this is something that can be abused. Blink into his main with stalkers, and cliffwalk with collosus if he pushes out. A lategame mech army is pretty much impossible to take straight on as protoss. When you start nearing 200/200, thers a fairly big chance your opponent will as well, and a push will soon follow. Start teching to carriers (Hide them as much as you can, preferably not in your main, as his push can end up taking them out if you're unlucky). Trade units with him when he pushes out, back off, and surprise him with 5+ carriers. And before anyone starts bashing this for being a bad idea, this is the tip I got from a GM toss player, and I have had success with it myself. MC has also used this several times..so surely there must be something in it?  I used to go for voids as well, but have lately found them to be less and less useful against terran lategame. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
I have heard its better to just turtle and get colossus/templar first, unless you have awesome micro to FF those banelings away?? | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Dariusz
Poland657 Posts
On June 27 2011 19:26 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: What is the best unit composition for Protoss against Terran who goes mech? I rarely seen it but I lost to every Terran who gone mech against me (Latest to Seige Tank, Hellion, Raven composition) cause I tried to do standard Colossus/Gateway/HT composition against it. Maybe Voidrays or Carriers will do the trick? Immortal/Void ray +HT if thor/banshee heavy | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
On June 28 2011 00:16 TeddyTerran wrote: What are the downsides to putting some marauders into a mech build? I'm thinking specifically of TvZ, where you can pretty much always expect a lot of lings. marauders provide a decent force to soak ling damage while tanks are firing. They also take up more room than thors per cost and can get rid of a lot of extra minerals that a mech build generates. Since they aren't built from factories they don't take up any siege tank building time. But what are the downsides? I looked at the mech strat for TvZ and marauders weren't mentioned. Even though they aren't mech and wont share upgrades I thought they would still be useful. I should note that I did not include hellions in my mech build, which may have been the reason i had excess minerals for marauders, but vs zerg I would think that tanks are there for the damage vs ground and anything else should just be trying to absorb as much as possible while protecting the tanks. I think there's two questions that may need to be addressed here: 1) Why no Marauders in Marine+Tank? 2) Why no Marauders in pure Mech [Hellion/Tank/Thor]? For #1, sometimes you'll see a marauder or two in more standard TvZ compositions, but as a general rule, in the early stages every 100 minerals you dump into rax units you want to come out as marines so that you have enough AA to stop the mutas from killing your tanks, especially since zerg will put a lot of effort into killing your marines with banelings and the like first. Marauders will not help against the muta/ling/bling composition that is so common. For #2, the reason is that Hellions are amazing against zerglings (even before blue flame) and Tanks are excellent against everything else on the ground. You'll note that Hellions sport a reasonably good number of hit points, and dump your minerals really well (1 reactor factory dumps like 400 minerals a minute). Lastly, Hellions provide some much-needed mobile elements to the amazingly immobile composition, giving you the opportunity for runbys, drops (if you have them) and harassment. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 27 2011 19:26 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: What is the best unit composition for Protoss against Terran who goes mech? I rarely seen it but I lost to every Terran who gone mech against me (Latest to Seige Tank, Hellion, Raven composition) cause I tried to do standard Colossus/Gateway/HT composition against it. Maybe Voidrays or Carriers will do the trick? Mid-game: There are lots of viable ways to tackle mech, and that's why different people are going to give you different responses. In general: - Sentries are useless. - HTs with storm is really hard to pull off effectively. I'd advise against HTs. - Council upgraded zealots and stalkers are great. Even if there are BF hellions, chargelots are still a good investment. - Immortals are always good against mech. Colossus are pretty good too. Going dual or triple robo for a lot of immortal/colossus is viable. - Void rays are useful if opponent mixes in Thors. If you like to poke around and harass, keeping the terran in his base, focus on the higher gateway count, and mix in immortals when you finally engage the entire army. If you just want to smash the army head on, get mostly immortal/colossus. Get enough stalkers to protect colossus from vikings. Any remaining minerals should go to zealots. If you see more thors, get more void ray/immortal. If you see more tanks, get more immortals. If you see more hellions, get more colossus. Late-game: Carriers. I don't think you can beat a maxed 200/200 T mech army with tank/ghost unless you have air. The 2 main counters to P air is marines and vikings, and carriers are better vs both of them than void rays are. So mass carriers. | ||
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