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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 23 2011 02:15 InCense wrote: How many Warpgates for blink stalkers can you support of 3 base while still getting upgrades off two forges? 9 if you have good macro. But you probably don't (and this isn't meant to be offensive, no one has perfect macro), so anywhere from 10-15. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 22 2011 17:06 Fus wrote: The best maps to use forge fastexpand on is taldarim and shakuras. It's possible to use on shattered but might be easy to lose to roach aggresion because it takes alot of cannons to cover the entire space and your natural. For shattered i would recommend sentry expand or stargateexpand, very safe and economic builds Shattered is certainly not as good a map for Forge expand as shakuras, but it's certainly still possible. If you're comfortable with it, go ahead and do it, don't let anyone tell you that it's insta-loss against any early aggression because it works even at the highest level of play. | ||
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
What is the better response in case i see 1rax expo? 1. 1 Gate FE into 4-5 gates+ robo or 2. Usual 3gate robo but after expo str8 tech into Colossus? I tried doing both in the same time but it leaves me too weak in the middle game. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 23 2011 02:27 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: My usual PvT strategy is 3gate robo into expo and 2 forges Tyler's style. What is the better response in case i see 1rax expo? 1. 1 Gate FE into 4-5 gates+ robo or 2. Usual 3gate robo but after expo str8 tech into Colossus? I tried doing both in the same time but it leaves me too weak in the middle game. ...so don't do both at the same time? If you scout 1 rax FE you're safe to essentially not make any (additional) units and just put up your nexus asap. Then resume normally, just don't go straight to colossus afterwards. | ||
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Vod.kaholic
United States1052 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 23 2011 02:52 Vod.kaholic wrote: If I'm doing an AdelScott style PvP opening and I don't deal too much damage, how can I be prepared for warp prism + dt drop? Should I get an earlier robo or should I spread out several more cannons? First, stop doing adelscott pvp opening, it sucks. Second, robo + dt in PvP? That's not a rush, there's nothing you have to do "early" to defend against this. Third, you basically have 2 mid game options in PvP (ignoring stargate). Robo or twilight. If you go robo, you have an obs already. If you go twilight (such as blink), you just have to pray your opponent doesn't go DT, or get a pre-emptive forge+cannon which will weaken your attack, but there's not much you can do. Or you go robo for obs + blink, which again makes your blink attack a little weaker but at least you'll have obs for DT. If you go cannon just place 1 in your mineral line, or place 1 by your nexus but surround it by buildings. There's no need to spread out several. If a DT comes, then start your robo ASAP, but your base construction should allow that 1 cannon to protect everything or at least mostly everything. So if you plan to go the blink route, your should start with this tight base layout in mind from the beginning. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
If I expect Protoss air harass off 1-base Protoss, should I add more queens or rather some spores, or should I do a mix? (Queen is more mobile, but can be lifted and disabled, however a spore consumes a drone.) | ||
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sNatch
United States93 Posts
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.Mthex-
United States168 Posts
On June 23 2011 03:41 [F_]aths wrote: Can I consider 15H15P versus Protoss on 4-player-maps (of course in 1v1 mode) a calculated risk, or is it madness? If I expect Protoss air harass off 1-base Protoss, should I add more queens or rather some spores, or should I do a mix? (Queen is more mobile, but can be lifted and disabled, however a spore consumes a drone.) 15H 15P is practically standard against toss, its safe on all maps, you just may have to pull drones to stop a cannon rush-- its almost necessary to keep a drone near the hatch on certain maps (shattered temple for one), in order to keep the probe from throwing down a series of pylon wall-offs. Extra queens can easily handle air harass, but since you intend to get upgrades anyways (or you should be if you plan on going 15H), its a good idea to throw down a spore at each base incase of DT's. | ||
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On June 23 2011 04:19 sNatch wrote: In a Hellion v Hellion battle, is it better to upgrade +1 attack or armor first given a sample size of hellions of say 8. And would this change if the sample size were 6 or 10? Attack would be the better option simply because it is cheaper, I don't think helions gain any more than 1 damage per upgrade but if they did then it would just make it more favored towards attack. The only way an armor upgrade would be better is if your opponent will be hitting your units more than you hit them, and you only gain 1 damage per attack upgrade. | ||
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.Mthex-
United States168 Posts
On June 23 2011 04:19 sNatch wrote: In a Hellion v Hellion battle, is it better to upgrade +1 attack or armor first given a sample size of hellions of say 8. And would this change if the sample size were 6 or 10? Hellions have 90 HP,and do 14 damage to each other (splash) without blue flame. Now getting +1 attack in this case would make it so the hellions kill other hellions in 1 less hit, but if you intend on getting the blue flame upgrade (which you should if you want +1 for hellions at all), the upgrade does not reduce the number of hits it takes to kill another hellion (with blue flame already). At no stage in upgrades does +1 armor actually increase the number of hits either. Edit: +1 for hellions does increase their damage against other hellions by 2, but my point is still valid. Basically -Just get Blue flame, as opposed to any upgrade. -No this does not change for larger groups, in large groups just try to use splash damage the best you can. | ||
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ZeroTalent
United States297 Posts
On June 23 2011 04:19 sNatch wrote: In a Hellion v Hellion battle, is it better to upgrade +1 attack or armor first given a sample size of hellions of say 8. And would this change if the sample size were 6 or 10? (1) The impact of micro to maximize splash damage dealt/minimize splash damage taken will be much larger than that of upgrades in hellion-on-hellion battles. (2) Assuming equal splash damage, a +1 attack means your hellions will 6-shot theirs instead of 7. But blue flame would make them 4-shot theirs. +1 armor has no effect in either case; +3 attack vs zero armor upgrades gets you to 3-shot their hellions. With or without blue flame, +2 armor vs unupgraded hellions yours hellions alive for one more shot; however +3 armor versus +1 attack removes this advantage. So the priorities are blue flame, then +2 armor to keep yours alive, then +1 attack. EDIT: ninja'd. | ||
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SpearWrit
United States300 Posts
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 23 2011 04:51 .Mthex- wrote: 15H 15P is practically standard against toss, its safe on all maps No it's not. There's a reason why 95% of the Z's I play do not hatch first. The protoss doesn't need to "hide" his cannon rush, so it doesn't matter if you see it or not with a drone/ovie. There are many maps where you can fully wall in a cannon with just 2 pylons. Other maps it might take 3, or you can mostly wall in a cannon with 2, but regardless it's still usually worth it and it'll shut down your expansion. Even if you stop it with drones, you're not ahead because more than half your drones are not mining for that time. It is a gamble that you could take on large 4 player maps, but it's not really even a calculated risk because there's nothing to calculate - your opponent doesn't even need to forge first to cannon rush you, he can start with some other build, scout your hatch first, drop his forge at 15-16 supply, and still have plenty of time to cannon you. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 23 2011 05:30 SpearWrit wrote: What is an "average" timing and/or set of conditions within the game to safely take a 3rd base? This is not a simple question and there are no simple answers for this. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On June 23 2011 05:30 SpearWrit wrote: What is an "average" timing and/or set of conditions within the game to safely take a 3rd base? There is no easy answer but... Usually around 12 minute-ish sometimes as early as 10 or 11 (Early 3rd). Conditions (Meet 1-2 of them) They lack a Army They are Expanding They are Teching You are attacking | ||
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Rykros
483 Posts
Drops are so annoying . I try alot of stufff but doesnot really work much ... If i place few stalkers the marauders kill them so easily with stim and healing from medic. Zealots get kited . And one cannon dies very quickly. What is best in the late late game where i put DTs up. But Before that like on shattered temple i was standing between my 4 bases and he keeps dropping to my main or 4th and i have to move everything here and there and then the big push comes in middle. Also if i can ask how do u decide if we have to go templar tech or colossus . Well both are splash.Its just mood for me if im in mood for colossus i make them and if templar i make them but later on if im on 3 or 4 bases i get both. How do u decide i dont really know . Even watching top players play sometimes they get colossus tech from 2 bases and sometimes templar. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On June 23 2011 06:02 Rykros wrote: In PvT how to YOU deal with drops??? Drops are so annoying . I try alot of stufff but doesnot really work much ... If i place few stalkers the marauders kill them so easily with stim and healing from medic. Zealots get kited . And one cannon dies very quickly. What is best in the late late game where i put DTs up. But Before that like on shattered temple i was standing between my 4 bases and he keeps dropping to my main or 4th and i have to move everything here and there and then the big push comes in middle. Also if i can ask how do u decide if we have to go templar tech or colossus . Well both are splash.Its just mood for me if im in mood for colossus i make them and if templar i make them but later on if im on 3 or 4 bases i get both. How do u decide i dont really know . Even watching top players play sometimes they get colossus tech from 2 bases and sometimes templar. DTs hold against drops well, if you see them coming HTs are good. Zealots hold against drops better than stalkers | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On June 23 2011 06:03 Blasterion wrote: DTs hold against drops well, if you see them coming HTs are good. Zealots hold against drops better than stalkers You need a combination of both zealots and stalkers to fend off drops. If you have pure zealots, they just get kited forever. Pure stalker is just not cost effective, you can have like 8 stalkers there, they drop 1 medivac, and they'll still end up killing like 4 stalkers. Generally I like to have 2 zealots and 2 stalkers patrolling at the edge of my base. This will easily stop 1 minimally microed medivac. If they use 2 medivacs though, you'll need a total of ~10 units to defend against that. The best defense is to just have good map awareness and see the drops before they come, which means obs everywhere, holding watchtowers, and placing proxy pylons all over the map. Make sure you never send your entire army to defend against 1 drop. Practice splitting your army and gauging how big of an army you need to comfortably defend against a drop. When engaging a drop, make sure to target fire the medivac(s) with your stalkers even before you clear the group troops. If you like colossus based armies, try incorporating phoenixes into your army composition earlier. Colossus/phoenix still works great, with the added bonus of being great against drops. As for the HT vs colossus question, it's generally a matter of personal preference. However, personally I've found that the bigger/more open maps favor gateway/HT (tal darim) whereas the smaller maps with chokes (xel naga) favor colossus based armies. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On June 23 2011 06:12 Anihc wrote: You need a combination of both zealots and stalkers to fend off drops. If you have pure zealots, they just get kited forever. Pure stalker is just not cost effective, you can have like 8 stalkers there, they drop 1 medivac, and they'll still end up killing like 4 stalkers. Generally I like to have 2 zealots and 2 stalkers patrolling at the edge of my base. This will easily stop 1 minimally microed medivac. If they use 2 medivacs though, you'll need a total of ~10 units to defend against that. The best defense is to just have good map awareness and see the drops before they come, which means obs everywhere, holding watchtowers, and placing proxy pylons all over the map. Make sure you never send your entire army to defend against 1 drop. Practice splitting your army and gauging how big of an army you need to comfortably defend against a drop. When engaging a drop, make sure to target fire the medivac(s) with your stalkers even before you clear the group troops. If you like colossus based armies, try incorporating phoenixes into your army composition earlier. Colossus/phoenix still works great, with the added bonus of being great against drops. As for the HT vs colossus question, it's generally a matter of personal preference. However, personally I've found that the bigger/more open maps favor gateway/HT (tal darim) whereas the smaller maps with chokes (xel naga) favor colossus based armies. True I feel Toss has the greatest benefit from unit composition rather than numbers, what's the english word that is used for this......ah synergy. Toss units have a unique trait of having great synergy between their units. | ||
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