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How do you deal with ghost rush as protoss PvT?
I went 3gateFE, I had a few sentries for forcefields, heavy zealot numbers, and a handful of stalkers (to put it into numbers, probably 5:2 ratio zealots:stalkers and maybe 3 sentries). He hit as my nexus was a little over halfway done.
I did not expect the push and a number of my sentries got emped (along with other units). with little forcefields and a chunk of my army drained of shields, I could not deal with his heavy marine maurader composition.
When probe scouting, I saw regular 1st gas timing; 2nd marine queued after 1st, did not see any additional buildings after barracks; did not see a 2nd gas; and no wall off.
With my first zealot&stalker poke, I saw marine maurader without shells at his ramp and retreated. I did not see the ghost academy, but based on the number of units he had I assumed 3rax possibly a 6-7min stim timing.
His attack hit a little past the 7min mark.
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On June 15 2011 15:34 tuestresfat wrote:
How do you deal with ghost rush as protoss PvT?
I went 3gateFE, I had a few sentries for forcefields, heavy zealot numbers, and a handful of stalkers (to put it into numbers, probably 5:2 ratio zealots:stalkers and maybe 3 sentries). He hit as my nexus was a little over halfway done.
I did not expect the push and a number of my sentries got emped (along with other units). with little forcefields and a chunk of my army drained of shields, I could not deal with his heavy marine maurader composition.
When probe scouting, I saw regular 1st gas timing; 2nd marine queued after 1st, did not see any additional buildings after barracks; did not see a 2nd gas; and no wall off.
With my first zealot&stalker poke, I saw marine maurader without shells at his ramp and retreated. I did not see the ghost academy, but based on the number of units he had I assumed 3rax possibly a 6-7min stim timing.
His attack hit a little past the 7min mark.
A replay would help, but here are a few general comments:
Your composition (5:2 zealot:stalker with 3 sentries) doesn't cost much gas, where's all your gas going? If you're not taking your 2nd gas relatively early you really should.
To hold off early bio rushes you either need:
1) Mostly stalker (which cannot be kited), and just enough zealots to tank the shots. You get only 1 or 2 sentries just for the guardian shield. This type of composition works pretty well early on when armies are relatively small.
2) A lot of sentries. Of course ghosts are a pretty good counter to sentry heavy play, but then you just have to spread out your army and make sure all your sentries don't get hit by 1 emp.
They key is that you did not expect the push - why not? You already assumed 3 rax, and you didn't see him expanding. You should have had watchtowers and/or a probe right outside his base so his army does not catch yours unprepared.
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When would it be better to get a reactor on a barrack for extra marine production instead of another barrack?
(so i am using the reactor to get extra marines no to switch for a tech lab with a fact after BF)
Or When would it be better to get another barrack for extra marine production instead of a reactor on a barrack?
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What is a good response against a zerg gas steal as Protoss? I normally go three gate expand with sentries. Special consideration based on close or cross positions and the different zerg openings?
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On June 15 2011 17:43 jjhchsc2 wrote:
When would it be better to get a reactor on a barrack for extra marine production instead of another barrack?
(so i am using the reactor to get extra marines no to switch for a tech lab with a fact after BF)
Or When would it be better to get another barrack for extra marine production instead of a reactor on a barrack?
If you need your marines "right now" its better to build another barrack while producing in your first barrack. Also, if you are just planning to get some marines for early defence and then switch to maradur it's better not to get the addon
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On June 15 2011 18:20 OsoVega wrote:
What is a good response against a zerg gas steal as Protoss? I normally go three gate expand with sentries. Special consideration based on close or cross positions and the different zerg openings?
im mid master skill and what i do is just like your saying. But i generally get 1 zealot then 1 stalker from 1 gate, i kill the extractor and then use my minerals to expand earlier while retaking the gas. If your want to do a gas intensive build you can compensate by taking your naturales gas earlier
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What sign/signs do i look for when scouting a 2 base roach/ling bust. And how do you scout it?
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On June 15 2011 20:30 Fus wrote:
What sign/signs do i look for when scouting a 2 base roach/ling bust. And how do you scout it?
Depends on your opening. The strength of this build is that you can't really scout it in time so you have to get defensive cannons (I assume you play protoss) beforehand.
Some builds get cannons and then cancel them once they scout nothing fishy.
If you are 2/3 gate sentry expoing : you should scout with hallucianted phoenix, timing is about 8 minutes. Check out this thread : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225509
If you go for FFE, cannons are good, stargate play is good as well, you can check this thread out : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230939
The main idea is that you don't really scout it, you just are prepared for it. At low levels, simply sneaking a probe in will do just fine btw :D
Tell us your PvZ opening and we'll be able to help you out more.
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What is a good/standard timing to get a Ghost Academy in TvP?
This is assuming you're not exactly sure what they're going, are expecting normal Colossus play and an eventual transition into HT play from the P.
I tend to skip Ghost tech unless I actually manage to scout a Templar Archives in lieu of a terribly fast robo. Reactive Ghost tech is a bit weak and makes me unable to engage directly until I have Ghosts out and with enough energy for EMP ):
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Whats a great BO for a bronze league zerg to learn the race with? Preferably something that's not all in or cheese.
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Sorry, but am I allowed to ask for replays here?
Does anyone have nerchio vs thorzain?
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On June 15 2011 23:05 benbizz wrote:
Whats a great BO for a bronze league zerg to learn the race with? Preferably something that's not all in or cheese.
14 Gas 14 pool for early zergling speed (gives you a lot of map control and can hunt workers well) then hatch. Good luck on your journey!
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On June 15 2011 23:20 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2011 23:05 benbizz wrote:
Whats a great BO for a bronze league zerg to learn the race with? Preferably something that's not all in or cheese. 14 Gas 14 pool for early zergling speed (gives you a lot of map control and can hunt workers well) then hatch. Good luck on your journey!
Thank you 
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Why is 14 pool 16 hatch so out of flavor among pro's? I just can't understand why this build is not more popular or the standard.
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On June 16 2011 00:03 Markwerf wrote:
Why is 14 pool 16 hatch so out of flavor among pro's? I just can't understand why this build is not more popular or the standard.
It's still used in ZvP by players such as IdrA and MorroW. It's not as good in ZvZ because it gets speedlings or roaches too late compared to speedling expand builds and a hatch too late to use it to defend your choke like players do in hatch first openings. In ZvT it's possible, but hatch first is just better so it's not as common.
The basic point is that Pool into gas-less expand is not better than hatch first so players would prefer to go hatch first, but hatch first is very risky in ZvP so players sometimes do 14 pool 16 hatch instead.
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On June 15 2011 23:15 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Sorry, but am I allowed to ask for replays here?
Does anyone have nerchio vs thorzain?
It well be released after dreamhack.
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
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On June 15 2011 20:45 PH wrote:
What is a good/standard timing to get a Ghost Academy in TvP?
This is assuming you're not exactly sure what they're going, are expecting normal Colossus play and an eventual transition into HT play from the P.
I tend to skip Ghost tech unless I actually manage to scout a Templar Archives in lieu of a terribly fast robo. Reactive Ghost tech is a bit weak and makes me unable to engage directly until I have Ghosts out and with enough energy for EMP ):
A good rule of thumb for getting your Ghost Academy is as you are taking your third base. You'll need that additional income in order to afford them along with everything else you've been paying for.
If you scout 2 base HT play, the better option is to....just go fucking kill him. He's in a transitional period where he will be lacking more in army size due to the time it takes to:
Get a Templar Archive
Research Storm
Accumulate 75+ energy on spawning HTs.
Assuming you are on 2 bases and have upgraded Bio with Medivacs, it should be the perfect timing to go and win the game or at least apply enough pressure to keep Protoss in his base and take a third. A Ghost transition during this push will shut down HTs later on if you were thwarted and should let you take the game after that.
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
EDIT: ok so my questions are kinda long, but like, they're pretty simple. just read the first sentence of each question if you want >.> sorry i can be kind of wordy.
In TvP, if you open with a bio FE (like a 2 rax stim FE, or a 1 rax FE into mass rax play), what do you do when a protoss player busts out some DTs? I'll break this into three sections:
1) What's the best way to scout for DTs? What tells do you look for, and how do you gather information about those tells? I know you're looking for a fast double gas, or 4 gasses on 2 bases with a relatively low sentry count, assuming you can't scout the DT shrine itself, but what's the best way to find out the gas count? Also, if you scout a twilight, how do you know there are DTs coming? Should you proxy a rax, or scan? It's hard to sneak an scv in the front once he has a couple units. This is more a "how do you scout 2 base DTs" question, since if he's going for 1 base Dts it's pretty obvious.
2) Okay, so your opponent is busting out a 2 base DT map control play and trying to take a third. You know he's doing it, and he had DTs wandering around on the map. You have a bio army, and let's say you haven't gotten medivacs for whatever reason, and you're on 2 bases also. What do you do to deal with the protoss 3rd going up? Do you spend a few minutes getting out a raven? Make an in-base 3rd, use it for scans so you can attack, then fly it out once you're stable? Get out ghosts and use EMPs for detection? If he's expoing behind DTs, what's the best way to be aggressive?
3) In general, what do you do for Crisis Management when you find a DT in your base/nat? If you don't have an engineering bay, you obviously start making one, and you want a turret at your front, but how do you deal with the DT wandering around in your base trying to troll your workers/depots? Is it worth it to scan to kill him, or do you want to wait for your turret at the front to go up? What if he starts hitting your addons? Is there a good way to position your buildings in your main and at your nat to minimize the negative impact of DT harass? How many bio units does it take (with/without stim) to kill a DT without losses?
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On June 16 2011 03:34 Blazinghand wrote:
EDIT: ok so my questions are kinda long, but like, they're pretty simple. just read the first sentence of each question if you want >.> sorry i can be kind of wordy.
In TvP, if you open with a bio FE (like a 2 rax stim FE, or a 1 rax FE into mass rax play), what do you do when a protoss player busts out some DTs? I'll break this into three sections:
1) What's the best way to scout for DTs? Enemy is mining a lot of gas, but spending little of it. What tells do you look for, and how do you gather information about those tells? I know you're looking for a fast double gas, or 4 gasses on 2 bases with a relatively low sentry count, assuming you can't scout the DT shrine itself, but what's the best way to find out the gas count? Also, if you scout a twilight, how do you know there are DTs coming? If you scout it reasonably early, you should see it upgrading. If it's not upgrading, he is going templar tech, 1/2 base is mostly DTs. Should you proxy a rax, or scan? Proxy Rax is kinda hard as it gets denied easilly, but it is safer to scout with. It's hard to sneak an scv in the front once he has a couple units. This is more a "how do you scout 2 base DTs" question, since if he's going for 1 base Dts it's pretty obvious.
2) Okay, so your opponent is busting out a 2 base DT map control play and trying to take a third. You know he's doing it, and he had DTs wandering around on the map. You have a bio army, and let's say you haven't gotten medivacs for whatever reason, and you're on 2 bases also. What do you do to deal with the protoss 3rd going up? Do you spend a few minutes getting out a raven? Make an in-base 3rd, use it for scans so you can attack, then fly it out once you're stable? Get out ghosts and use EMPs for detection? If he's expoing behind DTs, what's the best way to be aggressive? If you have a techlab laying around and a Starport, it is worth it to go for a raven and safe yourself a couple of scans. Otherwise, use scans to go kill him, possible with an in base 3rd Orbital, but not essentially. He is low on units if he goes for fast DTs and a 3rd, take advantage of that! You'll only need a couple of scans to get to his base.
3) In general, what do you do for Crisis Management when you find a DT in your base/nat? Create a wall at your front to prevent more DTs from coming in/escaping. Start saving scans untill you have turrets/raven up If you don't have an engineering bay, you obviously start making one, and you want a turret at your front, but how do you deal with the DT wandering around in your base trying to troll your workers/depots? Is it worth it to scan to kill him, or do you want to wait for your turret at the front to go up? A good player won't run into your turret, and you'll have to scan the DT to safe your base. Remember; DT = 125/125, Scan is 270 delayed. He wastes more money. What if he starts hitting your addons? Is there a good way to position your buildings in your main and at your nat to minimize the negative impact of DT harass? Not really, DTs will mostly come alone, so unless you wall in your Mineral Line, it's not safe...How many bio units does it take (with/without stim) to kill a DT without losses? Depending on micro/positioning, I think 1 stimmed unit can take a DT down, and else, attack with everything but the unit being followed. DTs die quite fast.
Answers in bold.
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EPT
