On June 15 2011 05:52 Faent wrote: High diamond zerg, what do I do in ZvP when a protoss walls in the bottom of my ramp with 3 pylons then proceeds to cannon rush?
If you go hatch first, it's best to cancel the hatch and try and do some kind of all in, (hydra ling nydus for example; the protoss tech should be too far behind to defend this). If you gas/pool do some kind of roach rush > expo. You'll be able to deny his expo from going up for a long time and force some kind of one base play in response.
Masters zerg.
I was thinking cancel hatch, start inbase hatch, 1 spine or something but Ill try these aswell thank you
You can try hatch in base but your tech will be delayed as well and your economy will also fall behind theirs, (if they play greedy). You can try getting the in base hatch around lair tech for extra larva if you need it but if you go for a balance between hydra/ling then you should be ok off of one base.
On June 15 2011 05:52 Faent wrote: High diamond zerg, what do I do in ZvP when a protoss walls in the bottom of my ramp with 3 pylons then proceeds to cannon rush?
If you go hatch first, it's best to cancel the hatch and try and do some kind of all in, (hydra ling nydus for example; the protoss tech should be too far behind to defend this). If you gas/pool do some kind of roach rush > expo. You'll be able to deny his expo from going up for a long time and force some kind of one base play in response.
Masters zerg.
I was thinking cancel hatch, start inbase hatch, 1 spine or something but Ill try these aswell thank you
That cannon rush is the reason most zergs don't go hatch first in ZvP any more. Personally, when someone does this to me I go straight into roaches. The roaches can quickly take down the pylons safely, and he will have to throw down a bunch of cannons to defend(there is no way he will have more than ~2 sentries to defend), so you can take your second and third. By bringing your scouting OL close to his wall on certain maps, such as Shakuras, you can pick away at his wall until he gets a Stalker out(or, depending on the wall-in there will be no room for the stalker, so you will be able to take the wall-in down). If he makes 2 cannons or less and only has 2 sentries you should break his wall. Try to bait the forcefields and then attack after they clear. Make sure you don't die to a SG follow-up, so you should generally go expand, expand, Lair, or make quite a few Queens(creep and AA). The only other real threats are Colossi based timing attacks(2 colossi range) which can generally be crushed by Roach/Hydra and 6 Gates, which can be beaten by good drone timing, as well as burrow movement.
As for the amount of roaches, I generally make 7, because I figure that 5 aren't very useful because by the time they reach his base he will have 2 cannons and 2 sentries, in which case they're useless. With 7, you can kill him if he doesn't throw down enough cannons. Finally, use your unscoutability. The toss will not know what you're doing until he gets obs/SG tech, so use that to your advantage.
I play Protoss. My question is, when you nexus first, assuming constant probe production, when do you "catch up." A better way to word this may be, assuming I am doing the same build either way, when do I get back on even ground and start benefiting form the Nexus first?
On June 15 2011 06:18 Styvorama wrote: I play Protoss. My question is, when you nexus first, assuming constant probe production, when do you "catch up." A better way to word this may be, assuming I am doing the same build either way, when do I get back on even ground and start benefiting form the Nexus first?
Thanks!
Somewhere around the mid-20 supply. The thing about Nexus first is that the constant probe production is VERY expensive. Each nexus costs as much to run as a gateway making Zealots. This is why you have to cut probes in order to get extra units out. When you catch up depends on what you do, though. However, the basic thing to remember is that as long as you don't die straight away, every second you have the extra base running you are pulling farther and farther ahead economically.
What is the most optimal way to make scvs build supply depots? Assuming you are building more than 2. Normally I would select all or a majority of my scvs, BS click, BS click. This selects two scvs from mining to build the depots. A little later they will begin to diverge from the mining movement "(from and to cc). I identify them, select them, and shift them back to the mineral line. However, this is very apm intensive. Another variation I do is to select the number of scvs I want. If i want 3 depots, I select 3 scvs. This makes shift queuing back to minerals much faster.
I want to believe that there is some way to use shift to ask the SCVS to build depots without me spamming BS,BS every time. I tried something similar where I select 3 scvs BS, hold shift, but it only makes one build the depots and queues up the other 2 on that same scv. So is there a more optimal way?
Sorry if this was covered before, but what is the easiest/most viable way to drop your units one by one in a line? for example, a roach drop with 2 overlords filled. I watch alot of games where they fall out one by one while the transport is still en route....i myself can't figure out how to do that if i have more than one overlord filled.
On June 15 2011 06:44 csikos27 wrote: Sorry if this was covered before, but what is the easiest/most viable way to drop your units one by one in a line? for example, a roach drop with 2 overlords filled. I watch alot of games where they fall out one by one while the transport is still en route....i myself can't figure out how to do that if i have more than one overlord filled.
Send your overlord to a position. Once you feel that you want units to begin dropping click D (drop hotkey) and click on the overlord itself. It will still fly towards the destination. If it reaches destination first, it will finish its load there. If it doesnt reach it yet, it will continue to fly until it does. The problem is, you must do these individually for each overlord.
On June 15 2011 06:40 burnswuff wrote: What is the most optimal way to make scvs build supply depots? Assuming you are building more than 2. Normally I would select all or a majority of my scvs, BS click, BS click. This selects two scvs from mining to build the depots. A little later they will begin to diverge from the mining movement "(from and to cc). I identify them, select them, and shift them back to the mineral line. However, this is very apm intensive. Another variation I do is to select the number of scvs I want. If i want 3 depots, I select 3 scvs. This makes shift queuing back to minerals much faster.
I want to believe that there is some way to use shift to ask the SCVS to build depots without me spamming BS,BS every time. I tried something similar where I select 3 scvs BS, hold shift, but it only makes one build the depots and queues up the other 2 on that same scv. So is there a more optimal way?
I'm not sure what is the fastest as I play Protoss mainly but I do your second variation. I select 2 SCVs that have just turned in their minerals and go BS BS then shift click back to the mineral line. I don't think it takes much longer than only one BS as it's still the same keys.
On June 15 2011 06:40 burnswuff wrote: What is the most optimal way to make scvs build supply depots? Assuming you are building more than 2. Normally I would select all or a majority of my scvs, BS click, BS click. This selects two scvs from mining to build the depots. A little later they will begin to diverge from the mining movement "(from and to cc). I identify them, select them, and shift them back to the mineral line. However, this is very apm intensive. Another variation I do is to select the number of scvs I want. If i want 3 depots, I select 3 scvs. This makes shift queuing back to minerals much faster.
I want to believe that there is some way to use shift to ask the SCVS to build depots without me spamming BS,BS every time. I tried something similar where I select 3 scvs BS, hold shift, but it only makes one build the depots and queues up the other 2 on that same scv. So is there a more optimal way?
Select the amount of scvs, click them away from the minerals, then hit b, hold down shift, press s and place your depots.
On June 15 2011 06:44 csikos27 wrote: Sorry if this was covered before, but what is the easiest/most viable way to drop your units one by one in a line? for example, a roach drop with 2 overlords filled. I watch alot of games where they fall out one by one while the transport is still en route....i myself can't figure out how to do that if i have more than one overlord filled.
Post above me explained it in text, but here is a video explanation in case you didn't follow what he/she wrote:
Has any pro player used an overlord carrying blings to spot for nydus? (drop blings to destroy workers trying to kill nydus) Has any pro player used burrowed blings in their own mineral line to prevent ling runbys/counterattacks? (explode them to kill lings trying to kill drones)
If not, why not? Are they bad ideas? It's only 1 or 2 supply for each of them.
On June 15 2011 09:30 Erzz wrote: Has any pro player used an overlord carrying blings to spot for nydus? (drop blings to destroy workers trying to kill nydus) Has any pro player used burrowed blings in their own mineral line to prevent ling runbys/counterattacks? (explode them to kill lings trying to kill drones)
If not, why not? Are they bad ideas? It's only 1 or 2 supply for each of them.
(was thinking of new ways to use blings)
(Note: this is off of my own personal experience observing many, many games. Clearly some pro may have done one of these things in a game at some point, so I'm speaking in generalities.)
1) No. It's rare to see nydus and drop researched in the same game because they serve largely the same function of transporting units. Even when they are both researched, it makes more sense to guard your nydus with actual units in the overlords (e.g., roaches) since they can stop both workers and at worst delay regular units from sniping worms.
2) No. With the current state of ZvZ, it's hard to see when this would be used although it is a good idea on paper. Clearly this doesn't work in the early game since you don't have burrow. In the mid-game, both zergs tend to turtle while they build up roach/infestor so runbys are less effective. It probably makes the most sense in the end-game where armies are more spread out, but ZvZs rarely reach post-roach/infestor end-games so it's hard to say.
Also keep in mind that most people simply a-move their lings into mineral lines so unburrowed banelings will probably be just as effective as burrowed banelings.
On June 15 2011 12:46 raebodep wrote: Guys, I am sorry. I made a thread asking this question, they've sent me here to ask it. So here I am:
Does 11 pool, 18 hatch deny 2rax pressure? Does it put zerg economically behind compared to a 15hatch 15pool or speedling expand?
11 overpool -> 18 hatch ends up with the same number of drones at the end as a 15 hatch 15 pool, but several of the drones haven't been alive as long, meaning you haven't mined as much.
an early pool holds off 2 rax pressure, but part of this is when you get your lings, how many you get, and whether you get a crawler or extra queen, and the rush distance / spawn location. In cross spawns or big maps like tal darim, i think 15 hatch 14 pool is pretty safe.
On June 15 2011 12:46 raebodep wrote: Guys, I am sorry. I made a thread asking this question, they've sent me here to ask it. So here I am:
Does 11 pool, 18 hatch deny 2rax pressure? Does it put zerg economically behind compared to a 15hatch 15pool or speedling expand?
11 overpool -> 18 hatch ends up with the same number of drones at the end as a 15 hatch 15 pool, but several of the drones haven't been alive as long, meaning you haven't mined as much.
an early pool holds off 2 rax pressure, but part of this is when you get your lings, how many you get, and whether you get a crawler or extra queen, and the rush distance / spawn location. In cross spawns or big maps like tal darim, i think 15 hatch 14 pool is pretty safe.
I see. But close position 2rax pressure is too micro intensive and very risky for a Zerg player where many things can go wrong. What would be an ideal anti-2rax build in close positions?
What is an indicator to see when toss is 6 gate you in tvp. I mean their build seems like a normal fast expand, but sudenly they cut probe and get 6 gate up. They attack at the time when medivac almost out. So if I spend too much on tech, I will die
On June 15 2011 12:46 raebodep wrote: Guys, I am sorry. I made a thread asking this question, they've sent me here to ask it. So here I am:
Does 11 pool, 18 hatch deny 2rax pressure? Does it put zerg economically behind compared to a 15hatch 15pool or speedling expand?
11 overpool -> 18 hatch ends up with the same number of drones at the end as a 15 hatch 15 pool, but several of the drones haven't been alive as long, meaning you haven't mined as much.
an early pool holds off 2 rax pressure, but part of this is when you get your lings, how many you get, and whether you get a crawler or extra queen, and the rush distance / spawn location. In cross spawns or big maps like tal darim, i think 15 hatch 14 pool is pretty safe.
I see. But close position 2rax pressure is too micro intensive and very risky for a Zerg player where many things can go wrong. What would be an ideal anti-2rax build in close positions?
on metalopolis close or shattered close, you need to go pool before hatch. Another option is a speedling expo. on other maps, the "close" spawn isn't close enough to merit pool before hatch.
On June 15 2011 14:51 pedduck wrote: What is an indicator to see when toss is 6 gate you in tvp. I mean their build seems like a normal fast expand, but sudenly they cut probe and get 6 gate up. They attack at the time when medivac almost out. So if I spend too much on tech, I will die
Check the replay. There is generally a time-frame when the extra gates will go up. Remember that time start a scan next game to see what is us.
what is the earliest time possible for: banshees void rays dts to start just so i can get an idea when to set up a spore, i just hate getting jumped if i miss scouting
On June 15 2011 15:20 Rousetical wrote: what is the earliest time possible for: banshees void rays dts to start just so i can get an idea when to set up a spore, i just hate getting jumped if i miss scouting
fastest reasonable void ray is 5:30 fastest reasonable banshee is 6:30, with cloak coming a minute later. fastest reasonable DT is 6:30
EPT
