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On May 25 2011 23:27 Synystyr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 23:17 how2TL wrote:
Can someone explain the basics of drone micro vs <10pool?
How to surround and general tactics for not totally f'ing up your worker line? Abuse mineral walking as best as you can and delay until your spawning pool is up. If you hatched first, you can probably kiss that game goodbye however.... Use mineral walk to glide through your opponent's lings, and then A-move the moment the drones are on top of the zerglings to get the best possible surround you can. However, if your pool is close to completion, run your drones off creep and get lings out to defend.
Sometimes I try the mineral-walk surround and I still lose. Should I be trying to engage all 6 lines in the mineral line?
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On May 26 2011 01:01 how2TL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 23:27 Synystyr wrote:On May 25 2011 23:17 how2TL wrote:
Can someone explain the basics of drone micro vs <10pool?
How to surround and general tactics for not totally f'ing up your worker line? Abuse mineral walking as best as you can and delay until your spawning pool is up. If you hatched first, you can probably kiss that game goodbye however.... Use mineral walk to glide through your opponent's lings, and then A-move the moment the drones are on top of the zerglings to get the best possible surround you can. However, if your pool is close to completion, run your drones off creep and get lings out to defend. Sometimes I try the mineral-walk surround and I still lose. Should I be trying to engage all 6 lines in the mineral line?
If you are having trouble mineral walking, then a good alternative that many people do is simply to pull your drones and engage in the open field in front of your hatch. All you need to win the fight against 6 lings is to ensure that all your drones are participating in the fight. If any of your drones are blocking each other while you are mineral walking, you aren't doing it right, and you will lose the engagement as a result.
Also, it's worthwhile to note that when you are engaging in the open field, it is easier to micro hurt drones away than with mineral walking since they aren't stacked up.
(Note: this only addresses the immediate question of how to engage lings with your drones. The question of if you should be engaging depends on your pool timing and how many lings he's sending along.)
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On May 26 2011 01:15 Kambing wrote:
Also, it's worthwhile to note that when you are engaging in the open field, it is easier to micro hurt drones away than with mineral walking since they aren't stacked up.
You actually don't need to "micro away" the hurt drones. All you have to do is to issue the hurt drones any move or stop command, and their target priority will fall and attacking zerglings will immediately target another drone.
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I did read the liquidpedia for how to read build orders, however im a little confused about one small thing: what does the phrase "@100% Gateway:Cybernetics Core" actually entail? when you have 150 mins you build cybernetics core? Liquipedia says:
"This is a way of indicating a point based upon the progress of something in production as a percentage. The reason to express a timing in this manner, rather than supply, is because many times production is timed relative to certain units or structures." But after reading that it seems i dont have a straightforward answer. Thanks.
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On May 26 2011 01:38 TenurialDroid wrote:
I did read the liquidpedia for how to read build orders, however im a little confused about one small thing: what does the phrase "@100% Gateway:Cybernetics Core" actually entail? when you have 150 mins you build cybernetics core? Liquipedia says:
"This is a way of indicating a point based upon the progress of something in production as a percentage. The reason to express a timing in this manner, rather than supply, is because many times production is timed relative to certain units or structures." But after reading that it seems i dont have a straightforward answer. Thanks.
As soon as your gateway finishes, start your cybernetics core. This type of notation is used because a gateway is a prerequisite for a cy core.
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On May 26 2011 01:38 TenurialDroid wrote:
I did read the liquidpedia for how to read build orders, however im a little confused about one small thing: what does the phrase "@100% Gateway:Cybernetics Core" actually entail? when you have 150 mins you build cybernetics core? Liquipedia says:
"This is a way of indicating a point based upon the progress of something in production as a percentage. The reason to express a timing in this manner, rather than supply, is because many times production is timed relative to certain units or structures." But after reading that it seems i dont have a straightforward answer. Thanks.
That means as soon as the Gateway finishes, build a Cybernetics Core ASAP.
The logic behind that statement is that you build a certain structure at a certain percentage of the building that's being built. Another example would be @75%Barracks:Refinery. Build a Refinery when your Barracks is 75% complete.
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I've been hearing about a new safe PvZ opening that I think HuK did which was a 3gate DT expand. Does anyone have a BO for it? I cant find any recent (post patch) threads with one...
That and is it indeed a good, safe general PvZ opening strat? If not what would be recommended?
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On May 26 2011 02:19 See.Blue wrote:
I've been hearing about a new safe PvZ opening that I think HuK did which was a 3gate DT expand. Does anyone have a BO for it? I cant find any recent (post patch) threads with one...
That and is it indeed a good, safe general PvZ opening strat? If not what would be recommended?
Great now that HuK is doing it he's ruining it for the Ps that have done that for months... I will link you to a thread, not sure which one you are referring to since there are many variations...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203792
Here's my version, comes earlier but has it's pros and cons as well:
http://www.justin.tv/tehemperorer/b/284076111
go to 3:22 there's two games in that VOD that are both PvZ DT Expands
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On May 26 2011 02:23 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:19 See.Blue wrote:
I've been hearing about a new safe PvZ opening that I think HuK did which was a 3gate DT expand. Does anyone have a BO for it? I cant find any recent (post patch) threads with one...
That and is it indeed a good, safe general PvZ opening strat? If not what would be recommended? Great now that HuK is doing it he's ruining it for the Ps that have done that for months... I will link you to a thread, not sure which one you are referring to since there are many variations... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203792
Thanks for the link- I had seen that one but I didn't know if the patch messed up the timings/effectiveness. Is that one still usable?
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On May 26 2011 02:27 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:23 tehemperorer wrote:On May 26 2011 02:19 See.Blue wrote:
I've been hearing about a new safe PvZ opening that I think HuK did which was a 3gate DT expand. Does anyone have a BO for it? I cant find any recent (post patch) threads with one...
That and is it indeed a good, safe general PvZ opening strat? If not what would be recommended? Great now that HuK is doing it he's ruining it for the Ps that have done that for months... I will link you to a thread, not sure which one you are referring to since there are many variations... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203792 Thanks for the link- I had seen that one but I didn't know if the patch messed up the timings/effectiveness. Is that one still usable?
Sure actually the patch made things better since if the DT expand runs into detection, morphing into an archon for defense is more powerful. Check my edit on my post, I have 2 games of my version DT Expand
EDIT: Wow that was back in April, on the 19th, sorry for the quality I fixed it later that week! Ugh hard to watch
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On May 26 2011 02:29 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:27 See.Blue wrote:On May 26 2011 02:23 tehemperorer wrote:On May 26 2011 02:19 See.Blue wrote:
I've been hearing about a new safe PvZ opening that I think HuK did which was a 3gate DT expand. Does anyone have a BO for it? I cant find any recent (post patch) threads with one...
That and is it indeed a good, safe general PvZ opening strat? If not what would be recommended? Great now that HuK is doing it he's ruining it for the Ps that have done that for months... I will link you to a thread, not sure which one you are referring to since there are many variations... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203792 Thanks for the link- I had seen that one but I didn't know if the patch messed up the timings/effectiveness. Is that one still usable? Sure actually the patch made things better since if the DT expand runs into detection, morphing into an archon for defense is more powerful. Check my edit on my post, I have 2 games of my version DT Expand EDIT: Wow that was back in April, on the 19th, sorry for the quality I fixed it later that week! Ugh hard to watch
Ok great, thanks a lot! Gonna go try it out 
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On May 26 2011 02:35 Geiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 02:23 tehemperorer wrote:On May 26 2011 02:19 See.Blue wrote:
I've been hearing about a new safe PvZ opening that I think HuK did which was a 3gate DT expand. Does anyone have a BO for it? I cant find any recent (post patch) threads with one...
That and is it indeed a good, safe general PvZ opening strat? If not what would be recommended? Great now that HuK is doing it he's ruining it for the Ps that have done that for months... I will link you to a thread, not sure which one you are referring to since there are many variations... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203792Here's my version, comes earlier but has it's pros and cons as well: http://www.justin.tv/tehemperorer/b/284076111go to 3:22 there's two games in that VOD that are both PvZ DT Expands I've been using this one which is pretty hidden with nice timings : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=213108
Nice Geiko that's the one I was looking for but couldn't remember who the OP was!
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On May 26 2011 01:37 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 01:15 Kambing wrote:
Also, it's worthwhile to note that when you are engaging in the open field, it is easier to micro hurt drones away than with mineral walking since they aren't stacked up.
You actually don't need to "micro away" the hurt drones. All you have to do is to issue the hurt drones any move or stop command, and their target priority will fall and attacking zerglings will immediately target another drone.
Cool, will keep all of that in mind. Thanks to all who responded.
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Why some players pulls from 4 to 9 drones-proves-scvs from the main base to the natural expo?? i have seen this all the time but i cant figure it out why. this alters the mining in main base. is it not better leave the drones-scvs-proves in the main and start with new workers in the expo???
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On May 26 2011 05:52 Cortez wrote:
Why some players pulls from 4 to 9 drones-proves-scvs from the main base to the natural expo?? i have seen this all the time but i cant figure it out why. this alters the mining in main base. is it not better leave the drones-scvs-proves in the main and start with new workers in the expo???
Consider each drone you send from your main to your nat as lost mining time. With this view, it makes sense to maynard drones to your natural instead of changing the rally from your main because overall, less drones will need to make the trip from main to nat.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On May 26 2011 05:57 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 05:52 Cortez wrote:
Why some players pulls from 4 to 9 drones-proves-scvs from the main base to the natural expo?? i have seen this all the time but i cant figure it out why. this alters the mining in main base. is it not better leave the drones-scvs-proves in the main and start with new workers in the expo??? Consider each drone you send from your main to your nat as lost mining time. With this view, it makes sense to maynard drones to your natural instead of changing the rally from your main because overall, less drones will need to make the trip from main to nat.
That and sometimes, you have more than 2 workers per min patch at your main, so this gives you an immediate boost in income, as the first 2 workers per min patch mine at full efficiency, but workers after that only give a small advantage unless they can go to a new expo to mine at full efficiency there. The idea of a certain number of workers being optimum or maximum in terms of economic output is referred to as "Saturation", which is what casters and gamers talk about when a base is "saturated" or "over-saturated."
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Hi I'm kind of a noob in sc2 and I play protoss, what I'm having trouble with in pvp is when someone on a small map rushes chronoboosted zealots out of 2 gates. He usually builds his gates near my base. This happens in maps like Xel'naga. I want to know what to do against this providing I scout it? Usually by the time I've noticed it it's too late to make any drastic changes in my build. Thanks..
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On May 26 2011 09:21 pezzaperry wrote:
Hi I'm kind of a noob in sc2 and I play protoss, what I'm having trouble with in pvp is when someone on a small map rushes chronoboosted zealots out of 2 gates. He usually builds his gates near my base. This happens in maps like Xel'naga. I want to know what to do against this providing I scout it? Usually by the time I've noticed it it's too late to make any drastic changes in my build. Thanks..
Your PvP standard should always be 9 pylon 12 gate (unless you are going for something cheesy like a 10 pylon 10 gate).
Now either you scout after pylon, at which case you should go directly into his base. If you see no structures, enter pannick mode and send another probe to scout at usual proxy locations. These are either in your base, in your natural, behind the grass on the tasteless secret hallway, of somewhere in the middle of the map (out of range of the xel naga towers)
Or you scout after gate, at which case your probe must go through all the proxy locations before getting to your opponents base.
Once you have scouted the proxy 2 gate start cutting probes. If you scout it very early, and trust your micro, get a second gate way and chrono out zealots and engage him when he goes up your ramp with the help of a few probes. Work your way up to 3 gates, building probes as you can.
Otherwise, you can put a forge down and get a cannon in your mineral line. Cannon placement is very important, it should cover all of your buildings. If he is still making zealots, get another cannon. Of course keep chrono boosting zealots, and make probes as you can afford them.
Hope this helps. If you need some training, you can add me (geiko.813 EU)
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Thanks man too bad I'm on SEA server. This helps quite a lot and yeah I usually scout on 12 after gateway. So should I skip my cybernetics core then?
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EPT
