EPTAbout Ultralysks I agree. They seem to be much worse than brood lords and only really useful if you get the opppenet to over react to your brood lords and start building mass vikings/phenoxes/corrupters and then you can make them almost useless by switching to ultras.
[D] Ultralisks are such a waste of money - Page 2
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SCdinner
Canada516 Posts
About Ultralysks I agree. They seem to be much worse than brood lords and only really useful if you get the opppenet to over react to your brood lords and start building mass vikings/phenoxes/corrupters and then you can make them almost useless by switching to ultras. | ||
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hoovehand
United Kingdom542 Posts
On January 24 2011 17:36 explicit wrote: This. It has been bothering me though, because the mechanics means a "autorepair" terran will beat an a-moving zerg. For instance: Your roaches will attack the SCV's repairing on the side you are attacking from, but once you start shooting the SCV's the PF takes no damage so they will stop repairing and move away from you. Your roaches then start attacking the PF again and the SCV's will start repairing, but this time from the "backside" where the roaches will not attack them. On PF's and thors, if you are attacking UP on a map against said unit the grapics of said unit will hide SCV's repairing from behind it (which happens automaticly, ref. the above). Personally i find it hard to target the SCV's repairing from behind a thor when im attacking up a map, and have even lost clutch maps to an unkillable thor where i would have to turn my "camera" to manually target and counter something that happens automaticly for the terran. Only easy way i found of dealing with it is zerglings and/or surrounding the repaired unit/building with my ranged units - which is sort of counterintuitive because you never know what you are moving into range of. And the times this occurs is typically in the very close situations with few units (since u cant outdamage the repair), typically you don't want to let it get pod shots when this happens. what do you suggest then besides removing auto-repair altogether? basically, 4 zerglings (100 mineral) have 28 dps compared to the roach (75 mineral 25 gas) at 8 dps. roach are terrible dps, you never ever EVER want to be stuck trying to out-dps the auto-repair with nothing but roaches. GET MORE ZERGLINGS. the trouble with auto-repair was always the pathing for melee units. i personally think that auto-repair was a dumb idea in the first place, but it still gets on my nerves with the amount of whining from players who don't seem to know how to control their units properly. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
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HungShark
United States134 Posts
On January 24 2011 17:17 Excludos wrote: "Repairing SCVs now assume the same threat priority as the unit they’re repairing." The word of the day is "same". If your units are on a-move, and all the repairing scvs are behind the PF, your units will continue to attack the pf, because there is no other unit more threatening, and the planetary fortress is closest. If you move your units off to the side for a bit, they will start killing scvs. note: School is starting in 5 minutes, so wont have time to watch your replay quite yet. Will update this post when I do  There were quite a number of SCVs repairing the PF that were positioned in front of it, closer than the attacking PF. My roaches still preferred to attack the PF. On January 24 2011 17:33 shihou wrote: you need to stop A-moving with your entire army on one hotkey. the battle at 22:35 was perfect example of why you lost this game. you had your entire army of 22 mutalisks, 29 banelings, and 20 speedlings on one hotkey and attack moved into 4 undefended tanks. (you had 9 other mutas that werent on any hotkey). those tanks should have been killed by your muta ball without any losses. but because you just a-moved your whole army you spent 10 banelings killing them. you then proceeded to attack move what was left of your army into his ball of marines. well guess what mutas are faster than banelings which meant he was able to kill off most of your mutalisks before your banes even reached them. as well you funneled the banelings in that narrow gap between his command center and barracks. Yeah. I agree completely. I had terrible control. Like I said, my micro was sloppy all game since I hadn't laddered in nearly two months. I have been playing mostly custom games (DoTA and Phantom Mode). On January 25 2011 02:37 Indignation wrote: Problems with your game, 1. Your drone count the entire game was terrible. There were many times where the terran had more scvs (not including mules) than you. That is a losing situation just there. You 2 kindof base traded and he continued to make scvs and u stopped all drone production. Being on 17 drones for 10min is not good. 2. Poor unit control, you seem to a-move your units and let them die. roaches on PF, you let tanks get free shots on ur ultras because you did not micro them (they were content to wait in line behind 1 ultra attacking 1 marine) one of the most sad things was when u let the terran drop single units on your mass banelings towards the end of the game. He kill around 6 banelings with 1 marine. 3. upgrades, you waited way too late to start upgrading your units. His infantry was 2/2 before you even started your first upgrade. I agree somewhat with the first point. That's a problem I've been having lately since I got back into laddering. Squeezing out more drones and managing my larvae has been a little difficult for me for some reason. I often find myself with excess minerals and no larvae on which to spend them. I don't think that was the game-breaker, however. After I got my 3rd and gold up, for most of the rest of the game, I had nearly double the workers. In fact, he was oversaturated on his two bases. Agreed with your second point. I admitted that my micro was terrible. Towards the end of the game, I was very flustered because I was raging a bit. I thought to myself, "I've been on five bases and keep denying his expos. HOW does he still have money?! HOW am I running out of money?" I wasn't thinking clearly, which explains a lot of the terrible decisions I made late game. Although I recognize the importance of upgrades, especially as zerg, I did not feel that upgrades played a significant role in this game. I managed to catch up fairly quickly. Besides, I was relying mostly on blings throughout the game. It's not like their life expectancy will be greatly increased with upgrades (their damage, maybe...). --- After resting, I've calmed down a bit. I still blame the ultralisks, but not so much that they're simply a terrible unit. After reading a few posts on this thread on some strats on how to use them, I can see some value they have. I sloppily teched to ultras without scouting, thinking they'd be the coup de gras for the Terran. He had an overwhelming army that can best handle ultras. All I did was waste 2700 minerals and 1800 gas, while sacrificing my map control and air dominance. I should have had the game in the bag, but I wasted too much money and microed terribly. The PF bust with my banelings was a bit extreme, but I don't think that was the big turning point. I still had plenty of money and a lot of operating bases, while I denied his 3rd expo. If I had simply stuck with mutas and blings, I would have eventually won with attrition, as I would have starved him out of money. | ||
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Morphs
Netherlands645 Posts
For all the resources and techtime that goes into the Utralisk, I think we could have expected a much better unit... like the thor (equal in cost, much faster to tech to).. But let's hope the balance team goes through the tiers one at a time. Tier 1 seems ok now, also for zerg (except the lack of anti-air). Tier 2 is where the first issues arise for zerg (hydra for instance).. not to mention the higher-tier units.. I guess blizz will try to stretch this into HotS, when it will be clean-slate time. For now, the map pool is what they try to adress (which could give ultras some use back..) | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Both times I lost. Normally I don't even bother teching to hive, unless it's a really long game. | ||
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Xeken
United States77 Posts
I found a good supply number to grab 3rd is around 105-110, which is anywhere between 12-15 minute mark, depending on how many engagements you have had till that point. Also, I've had a lot of success with ultras (Master and Diamond level). I actually find them a necessity in all my ZvT. | ||
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aquanda
United States477 Posts
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HungShark
United States134 Posts
On January 25 2011 04:19 Xeken wrote: You shouldn't try to get ultras till you grab your third base at least. Go with T1 and T2 off two base, control the map with lings and infestors (throw in a handful of hydra for thors, tanks, or medivacs), secure 3, grab ultra, then go from there. I found a good supply number to grab 3rd is around 105-110, which is anywhere between 12-15 minute mark, depending on how many engagements you have had till that point. Also, I've had a lot of success with ultras (Master and Diamond level). I actually find them a necessity in all my ZvT. I was on my fifth base, and he was barely getting his third... | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On January 25 2011 04:19 Xeken wrote: You shouldn't try to get ultras till you grab your third base at least. Go with T1 and T2 off two base, control the map with lings and infestors (throw in a handful of hydra for thors, tanks, or medivacs), secure 3, grab ultra, then go from there. I found a good supply number to grab 3rd is around 105-110, which is anywhere between 12-15 minute mark, depending on how many engagements you have had till that point. Also, I've had a lot of success with ultras (Master and Diamond level). I actually find them a necessity in all my ZvT. I call shens until you post up some replays. If you have had success with ultras (and hydras vs tanks...) then I would very much like to see it in action. | ||
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Xeken
United States77 Posts
And I will see what I can do about replays. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
the SCV auto-repair tweak apparently does NOT affect them when they're repairing PFs. Note that it says that SCV will have the same priority. Not a higher priority. If the PF is between the Roaches and the SCVs, then the Roaches will shoot at the first thing they see in range. The PF. If you want your Roaches to attach the SCVs, you must move them so that the SCVs are closer than the PF. | ||
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Reptilia
Chile913 Posts
On January 24 2011 17:22 5unrise wrote: or you can just make more banelings with the gas used on ultras... you are going to do more damage with 8 banelings than 1 Ultra would ever do. Unless the terran makes mech.. do not compare banelings to ultralisk. They serve for whole different purposes. As a zerg, u need to abuse the ability to tech switch. Thats what is most hard to fight as a terran player. | ||
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Kaasflipje
Netherlands198 Posts
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bearjuice
United States98 Posts
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greycubed
United States615 Posts
Remaxing with a roach army is stronger. And it comes out waaaaaaay sooner. I've lost multiple times because I have to watch a Terran army A-move through my base while my 15 ultras are slooooowly spawning. | ||
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PimpMobeel
120 Posts
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PimpMobeel
120 Posts
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bearjuice
United States98 Posts
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
I never tech to ultralisks in ZvP/T unless I'm way ahead or on 4/5 bases. They are a unit that are very situational, but if you can fit them in that timing, they can shatter the terran or protoss. | ||
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