Lets see ZvP: Broodlords are better against 99% of unit comps, and with ultras I need an even more wide open space than roach/hydra ZvZ: Ultralisks are about as good vs roach/hydra as zerglings are vs colossi ZvT: Hmm, I only ever use them for tech switches. Frankly though if my oppenent lets me stock up on 6 bases to gem 10000/5000 or whatever it is to remax on ultralisks, I've probably already one. He'll I could probably remax on roaches and do just as good with the ultralisks.
I don't use them at all. I tried to use them once against toss.. it was a huge mistake, after trading armies I queue as much ultras as I could. Before they came out I lost my main and 1st expansion, and the ones from main base + expansion were of course at the place first, so they got pwnt separately from the others that were coming from the rest of the map.
I use them alot, way more than i will ever use brood lords. Against P I have used them with at least 75-90% success. I think that lots of creep would be essential to even get to ultra's. The creep would allow for major concaves when needed to fend off attacks while teching to ultras and getting the upgrades. Opening 10-15 mutas has helped as well to keep them inside their base and to severely damage their eco, as well letting me expand freely for the resources. I would proceed to go hydra-roach-ling and mass creep spread which I have started since the beginning of the game.
On January 17 2011 23:42 branflakes14 wrote: FUNGAL.
GROWTH.
DOES. NOT. AFFECT. ULTRAS.
you kinda missed the point. he's saying that you should use fungal growth to hold units still so the ultras can destroy them without dealing with kiting
yesterday i focused a lot on ling ultra (hadnt built an ultra in like two months lol) with double evo upgrades. won every game that went long enough. of course im platinum, so my opponents didnt try any kind of air respnse, which helped.
one funny moment, cross metal vs t. he brings his bio tank army out, sees my 4th hatch in the corner with no drones yet' sieges up and attacks it with everything. while his tanks started shooting the hatch my 8 ultras and 80 cracklings run up behind him and eliminate all the tanks and then everything else. he didnt even kill the hatch it was so quick.
On January 18 2011 01:59 Johnny_Vegas wrote: @OP - You have actually decreased the SC2 community's knowledge of the game with your horrendous misinformation about Ultras, by posting (as others have said) an ancient video of Ultras from beta. Your post is so bad as a result, I wish admins would close and bury this thread so people will not accidentally watch that video and decrease their knowledge of the game.
What you should have done is download a unit tester map and test out Ultra's yourself, making your own video, not lazily linked the first Ultra video you found from YouTube without checking the date. Wow.
Please do note that I didn't state ANYTHING AT ALL saying about what Ultralisks are capable of. I was asking if there are more situations I could integrate them into my armies against Terran and Protoss. The video was there mostly for show. I know that it was outdated. I know it was full of crap. I have downloaded a unit tester and tested Ultras myself. I was asking if anyone else knew of an army they could counter effectively. READ posts before you make claims like this.
On January 18 2011 05:56 Zombo Joe wrote: Umm yeah, about those Ultralisks.
No creep, no upgrades, are you fucking serious? And when are you going to have ultras without lings to block the retreating units?
If you tech to the highest tier unit in the zerg race and don't have AT LEAST +2/+2 with +3/+3 on the way, you're terrible.
Way to be a Killjoy.
If you paid attention to the video, the Ultralisk has the Chitinous Plating Upgrade and Marauders would own even harder since their weapon upgrades scale better. So please, before raging at me, think about what you say.
On January 18 2011 09:24 Rizzie wrote: Please do note that I didn't state ANYTHING AT ALL saying about what Ultralisks are capable of. I was asking if there are more situations I could integrate them into my armies against Terran and Protoss. The video was there mostly for show. I know that it was outdated. I know it was full of crap. I have downloaded a unit tester and tested Ultras myself. I was asking if anyone else knew of an army they could counter effectively. READ posts before you make claims like this.
On the contrary, you claimed that ultras were "terribad" based on the video, which as others have pointed out reveals nothing about the current state of ultralisks. If you knew the video was useless, why link it in the first place? I suggest going back and reading your own post, then fixing it up so that it's actually relevant to the current game.
If you think about ultras in comparison to the other 2 massive ground units in the game it becomes obvious why you don't see them anywhere near as often as thors or colossi, all three of which cost the same resources and food to produce.
Ultras take much longer to get to than either of the other two.
Ultras need upgrades more than the other two to be effective, barring Colossus range. At least 2/4 is absolutely mandatory. YOu also need to have kept up with these upgrades because it will be so late in the game when you get the ultras out that protoss will most likely have +3 weapons and the terran will have 3/3 infantry upgrades.
The huge initial cost invested for the sole purpose of ultras is much higher than colossi or thors and they are also less cost effective rather than more cost effective in large numbers because they cannot all attack at once, rather than simply have more damage and more of them surviving an engagement like thors and colossi do.
Ultras must get within range of any anti armor units you have in order to deal any damage, there is no cute micro you can do that keeps them out of range of the units that counter them unless your opponent makes a mistake. They also cannot target fire those units E.G if you have Immortals in your army I can't fire over the Zealots and Stalkers to kill those Immortals off to lessen their effectiveness like Thors and Colossi can to Hydras. Thors and Colossi have 7 and 9 range, meaning they can simply keep back out of range of most of the anti armor units. Even in the case of Vikings against Colossi the Colossi can keep Stalkers between them and they don't even have to use that much micro because the Colossi can step over the Stalkers.
Thors and Colossi do not have to compete with other units in their army composition for the ability to attack the enemy like lings and ultras do. They also do not have to deal with the dis-economy of scale that melee has to deal with(As an army gets larger, there is less circumference in proportion to surface area.).
Thors and colossi are not punished nearly as much for fighting in chokepoints as Ultras are.
I mean think about it, as Terran when are 5 Ultras scarier than 25 Roaches? When you have all Tanks and Thors and not enough production facilities for bio. As Protoss? When you have all Stalker Sentry Colossus and you didn't get blink. As Zerg? When you don't have an army period. Of course in the cases of T or P these scenarios are entirely negated if you have a ramp to defend and are only 1 base behind.
By their stats, their abilities, their uses in various compositions, the time it takes to get them out, the amount of actual use they get by anyone, is there a single meaure of them that doesn't show them to be inferior to Thors and Colossi?
Ultras are great with the muta ling bling combo. By the time I get my ultralisks out, they are fully upgraded and are totally awesome. I love it against the mmm ball because it just takes some micro. Hide the lings and make them go right behind the mmm ball or even most armies and don't let the enemy move. Then ultras come in front and just rape the unmoving units. FG also works nicely.
Ultra use is very situational. Obviously in certain instances where the enemy army comp is likely to kill your ultras instantaneously they are likely a poor choice. Personally I like to use them if I'm going roach/hydra against a ground heavy enemy army (implying armored enemies - stalkers, thors, roaches, and such). They are great meat shields to have up in front with roach or roach and hydra support because they will weaken down the enemy army and take hits so your roaches/hydras can get in free hits. The only problem in this scenario is that the ultras will probably have no attack upgrades but will only have armor. It's also nice if you have extra queens and have them following around to transfuse.
Generally speaking though I don't end up getting ultras. You really need to look at the situation there's no other way of analyzing it. When considering to make ultras you don't think "ALRIGHT! Once I have enough of these guys out it doesn't matter what the enemy has because I'll just roll right over them"
i almost never make ultras simply because they are very slow off creep and not everyone allows you to stay on; in zvp i think broodlords are the better choice because you will most likely have an army consisting of roach/hydra/corruptor which makes the transition quite easy
also in the other matchups they arent really useful as hit and run off and chokes can easily make them a useless investment
Ultras are not cost-effective DPS. They have their role in pretty much every fight, though.
Against Terran, Ultras are the bane of Planetary Fortresses. They're basically the only unit that deals with them in efficient time.
Against Protoss, a Colossus shooting an Ultra is basically doing no splash damage because of just how fat ultras are. This is a *massive* reduction in the DPS of a deathball.
Immortals do kill Ultras pretty easily, but Zerg also get Cracklings at Hive tech. If you do not produce Cracklings at Hive tech, then you're a loser, even if you win the game.
No creep, no upgrades, are you fucking serious? And when are you going to have ultras without lings to block the retreating units?
If you tech to the highest tier unit in the zerg race and don't have AT LEAST +2/+2 with +3/+3 on the way, you're terrible.
Way to be a Killjoy.
If you paid attention to the video, the Ultralisk has the Chitinous Plating Upgrade and Marauders would own even harder since their weapon upgrades scale better. So please, before raging at me, think about what you say.
Sincerely, me.
EDIT: some guy dared me to make this video :D
What a stupid video, you're never going to see this situation in an actual game, it's like pitting a colossus against two vikings in a giant open space with no other units and saying "Dur look colossus are useless against Terran!"
Congrats, all you've proven is that if two marauder have an infinite amount of space to micro in on no creep they can kill one Ultra.
On January 18 2011 09:24 Rizzie wrote: Please do note that I didn't state ANYTHING AT ALL saying about what Ultralisks are capable of. I was asking if there are more situations I could integrate them into my armies against Terran and Protoss. The video was there mostly for show. I know that it was outdated. I know it was full of crap. I have downloaded a unit tester and tested Ultras myself. I was asking if anyone else knew of an army they could counter effectively. READ posts before you make claims like this.
On the contrary, you claimed that ultras were "terribad" based on the video, which as others have pointed out reveals nothing about the current state of ultralisks. If you knew the video was useless, why link it in the first place? I suggest going back and reading your own post, then fixing it up so that it's actually relevant to the current game.
Ahem. Direct quote from the original post. I'm bold-ing the part you should read, as you obviously can't read on your own.
"As portrayed in this video,Ultralisks are terri-bad. I seriously like Ultralisks, but want to integrate them into my army more often. Sorry if I have no replay, but this isn't much of a, "Hey I just won a match, watch my replay tell me what to do better" More or less, I just want to know..."
Can I make it any more obvious? The question was, "Where can I integrate Ultralisks in to my army more often?" Not, "Ultralisks are terrible, here's an extremely outdated video showing proof when there's tremendous room for the human to micro around the computer lololol this is terrible proof" I know that it was outdated. Yet again, another quote from me, inside your own quotation of myself. If you quote someone, know what you're quoting and know what they mean. Don't just blindly type and get across the meaning, "OMG U SAID SOMETHING SO THAT MEANS YOU BELIEVE IT" That's what I got out of your garbled little few paragraphs. And if you're trollin', try harder. Honestly, I expect more out of Sc 2 players/fans in the respects of intelligence and arguing/debating.
The out-dated video is really not contributing anything to this discussion, so why did you add it if it has no relevance to your question?
But anyways, about your question, as toss ultras are really good if I don't have time to react to them or don't know there coming. So if I have a sentry/stalker/collossus ball and the zerg switches suddenly from roach-hydra to ultras (and has the economy to build 10+ of them) then I'm screwed) I don't see ultras often so really I don't know how to respond to them very well either, and I feel many other toss players are the same way.
I think zerg should use them more often, since as a toss I'm so reliant on FF's in PvZ. But hey, I can't speak for zerg. All I know is that whenever I've fought against ultras they seem pretty damn effective.
Aren't ultralisks supposed to tank damage and not to make, just so your dps army can live little longer and deal a lot more damage than the ultralisks ever could?
- got stomped and got few larva - you're already ahead it doesn't even matter what you build anymore (just like terran all game roflz)
too bad they get roflstomped by marines and outmicroed by.. uhm ... everything. marines killing ultras looks like some ghettogangser killing the terminator with a knife.
EPT
