On January 18 2011 04:10 Toxigen wrote: I feel like ultralisks were in a great place before the patch that "fixed" their splash damage.
If they would just bring back the headbutt against buildings (and buff it so it's worth having) and leave the splash against units like it was at release, the ultralisk would actually be useful against the armies it's designed to be useful against (stalker balls, mass thors, clumps of armored units like roaches, etc.).
Yeah, I really liked how mass ultras used to be a good way to deal with mass thors.
However, I think the problem with the headbutt was that its range was less than that of the normal attack. So if the ultra tried to attack a building surround by SCVs, it just would run around because it wouldn't be able to get enough surface area to start attacking properly. With the change to the normal attack on buildings, it is able to reach over those SCVs and deal splash to them as well.
The unit just seems too clumsy nowadays with the reduced splash range and awkward size
I'm surprised no one has mentioned ultralisks in ZvZ in a bit.
Roach/infestor is a popular combo in mid-game ZvZ, but gets absolutely shredded by Ultralisks, as they completely ignore fungals. I've seen many a games won when a stalemate was reached with roach/infestor and roach/hydra, with one daring player going for the T3 and steamrolling through their army.
On January 18 2011 04:40 OfficerTJHooker wrote: I'm surprised no one has mentioned ultralisks in ZvZ in a bit.
Roach/infestor is a popular combo in mid-game ZvZ, but gets absolutely shredded by Ultralisks, as they completely ignore fungals. I've seen many a games won when a stalemate was reached with roach/infestor and roach/hydra, with one daring player going for the T3 and steamrolling through their army.
Too bad roaches with speed can kite ultras and beat them; I remember seeing a game with TLO going for Ultras a couple months ago when he had switched to zerg, but I don't remember who it was against, and the roaches of his opponent just kited all of them, so you would have to say that maybe you would want ultras AND infestors, which = no gas.
I actually do like ultralisks a lot in my ZvT though. I hadn't been using them for a while, and I decided to just go ahead and use them in a lot of my ZvTs against the common Tank Marine combo. The point of the Ultras in this is just to finish the game, they destroy planetaries, and I use them in conjunction with cracklings so that the cracklings just do all the terrible terrible damage while the Ultras just take the hits, and if I get nice surrounds on the marines with my cracklings, the ultras can eat them up. Also really good if I had been going infestors midgame and still have some left around with lots of energy.
they do fine late game vs T. once u have 4+ base going and the game isnt going anywhere, thats when ultralisk can change the game and end it in your favor. they are rare.
On January 18 2011 05:34 PhiliBiRD wrote: they do fine late game vs T. once u have 4+ base going and the game isnt going anywhere, thats when ultralisk can change the game and end it in your favor. they are rare.
but they are worth it
How? A bio army has a lot of ranged DPS and can destroy 3-6 ultras before armies connect. What composition for Z and T are you referring to.
On January 17 2011 23:31 Alpina wrote: From my experience in ZvT they are really good if you have them upgraded. In ZvP they sucks badly vs. any good protoss composition.
Actually a lot of stalker heavy compositions get raped by ultras. Ultras are very good tanks (obviously), have splash, pretty good DPS etc. Late game you will need broodlords or ultras, i dont really like getting broodlords against terran (marins and vikings). Since generally against protoss you will have corrupters, its quite easy to transition to broodlords. I think overall it depends on the opponent's army composition, since late game protoss and terran compositions will destroy you if you dont have tier 3.
I stopped teching Ultralisks to be honest. I really liked to play them since maybe 1 week before 1.2 but since this moment i prefer infestor/broolord/mutalisk/speedling army setups.
Ultralisks are good. Obviously you need to flank the bio balls or stuff with your zerglings/ultra or FG them so he can't micro too well. Also better to fight on creep with them.
Wow terrible op, terrible to put that old video in there not is it only super outdated but its alist like: oh lets pick this unit versus this unit and try them out against eachother!!!!!! OH NOES this unit dies its clearly underpowered!!!
.....
It doesnt work that way in this game. You have combinations of different units and not just walk around with one type of unit the whole game, sheesh.
I know its kinda like beating a dead horse at this point, but once bigger (and arguably better) maps come out, we'll all be talking about how OP zerg is with 300/200 sandwiches and how ultras decimate anything on the open field with a flank (and eventually how the ultra needs to be nerfed.. xD)
On January 18 2011 06:16 SwizzY wrote: I know its kinda like beating a dead horse at this point, but once bigger (and arguably better) maps come out, we'll all be talking about how OP zerg is with 300/200 sandwiches and how ultras decimate anything on the open field with a flank (and eventually how the ultra needs to be nerfed.. xD)
So true. Right now Ultras have a glitch in their attack animation. If you kite them well enough, they won't finish their attack and you won't take any damage. Ultras really need some sick flanking action to pin their target down to become effective.
you will still see 10 times more often ultralisks than you will see carriers (true for broodlords too) but you could argue colossi are used maybe even more often so i dunno
transitions to ultras in macro lategames are always entertaining though :D
ultralisk aren't suppose to counter bio -.- stim bio just melt them away It only counter terran mech and protoss death ball of stalker+colossi What pros do is fake broodlords then max with pure ultras
Ultralisks are very good for their role. Instead of questioning "are they ever worthwhile", try asking "how could these be useful?" Do your own "Funday Monday" and push for ultras as fast as possible. They are the most larva efficient unit you can produce, how does that affect things?
Ultralisks are massive, which means they break forcefields AND they can not be held immobile by fungal growth AND they are not slowed by concussive shell. A quick test in the unit tester or a quick look at liquipedia will confirm this.
Ultralisks are late game units. In order to be truly effective, they require their full armor upgrades (both the ground armor +3 and the ultralisk specific Chitonous plating). With this, un-upgraded marines only do 1 damage per shot... up to a whopping 3 damage a shot with +3. Having their attack upgrades are also really important, particularly if enemy marines or zerglings do not have armor upgraded. Also, upgraded ultras 3 shot marauders. If kiting is a problem, run lings in first to surround, or fungal growth, or nydus/drop ultras into their base or some other creative thing we haven't seen yet. (Just thinking about how fast you could get a 10 ultras out of a nydus worm makes me shudder...)
However, you can't just sort of decide late game "well, I guess I'm at late game, I suppose Ultralisks might be useful". You have to decide early that ultralisks are your late game strategy and get their upgrades mid game. This means that lings transition to ultras more easily than a roach/hydra build, but it certainly is still possible if you know where you are going. This is the same as saying that banshees transition more easily to battlecruisers than marine/tank. As day[9] keeps saying "have a plan".
I have seen it most effectively used by the zerg "300 food army". Specifically you macro strongly and stockpile larvae, then throw most of your units at the enemy, taking out half their army, then immediately queue 10-20 Ultras (fully upgraded by this point) and 70 seconds later you are back to 200/200 and smash them as they are rebuilding. From there you build cracklings like crazy as the ultras die, because they get back into the front as quickly as possible and are awesome at tearing down the buildings once the ultras drilled the hole.
EPT
