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On January 19 2011 00:39 mr_tolkien wrote:
I mainly loses because of mis micro, as it is VERY intensive.
creative...
So far, I can connect almost all of my losses to this. Misclicking transfusions can be awful, and missing more than one becomes a pretty big loss.
If you hit all of them correctly, you're awesome.
If you miss one or two, you're still fine.
If you miss more than that, you're wasting quite a bit.
If you miss a lot, work on your micro.
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Yeah, I'm glad you pointed out the Queen's tanking ability. A lot of people overlook the use of having no armor type, making her strong against every kind of attack (Of course, Archons will still deliver their devastating bonus damage, but Archons are so rare nowadays) and critical in fending off hellion run-bys.
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Yep. The most important thing to know is that transfuses «lag» a little bit when casted. They take about half a second to take effect.
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On January 19 2011 00:39 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2011 07:10 NTGKOA wrote:
Zerg is fundamentally a race where you mass and throw units at the enemy. Where is it written ? As long as there isn't a law for this, you have the right to be creative...
Zerg isn't a race where you have to throw your units away, Zerg just tends to be a race with units that are more difficult to keep alive through heated engagements, and is compensated by the fact that those units are easier to re-make. As far as I'm concerned, this only makes the ability to keep those units more valuable: imagine how many extra resources you'd have for things like getting +3/+3 or hitting T3 faster if you had to re-build, say, 25% less of your army after each engagement?
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On January 19 2011 01:30 OfficerTJHooker wrote:
Yeah, I'm glad you pointed out the Queen's tanking ability. A lot of people overlook the use of having no armor type, making her strong against every kind of attack (Of course, Archons will still deliver their devastating bonus damage, but Archons are so rare nowadays) and critical in fending off hellion run-bys.
Aren't queens armored? o_O
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On January 19 2011 02:04 eth3n wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 01:30 OfficerTJHooker wrote:
Yeah, I'm glad you pointed out the Queen's tanking ability. A lot of people overlook the use of having no armor type, making her strong against every kind of attack (Of course, Archons will still deliver their devastating bonus damage, but Archons are so rare nowadays) and critical in fending off hellion run-bys. Aren't queens armored? o_O
Not the slightest.
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Im suprised noone mentined HT's (dont even need the amulet, or the storm) and just feedbacking the queens and then rushing them with zeolots, (2 transfuse = 100 energy?, 100 damage to queens... i forgot how much hp the queens have)
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On January 19 2011 04:17 BloodyPikachu wrote:
Im suprised noone mentined HT's (dont even need the amulet, or the storm) and just feedbacking the queens and then rushing them with zeolots, (2 transfuse = 100 energy?, 100 damage to queens... i forgot how much hp the queens have)
Queens have 150.
But the thing is, the comp that you mention is HT/Chargelot. I don't see this being too much of any issue (though you're right in saying that would be fairly effective against the queen's themselves), as the main units that will be used with the queens are either Roaches or air tech. Pure, unfiltered, upgraded roaches do well against lots, and lots can't even hit hutas.
Also, HT's are pretty high in the tech tree. SO by the time that they regularly become a part of your army, it's very possible for the Aerg to be on a third or fourth base.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Fairly certain that they are ineffective, but how do they fare against Collosi?
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On January 19 2011 04:22 TALegion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 04:17 BloodyPikachu wrote:
Im suprised noone mentined HT's (dont even need the amulet, or the storm) and just feedbacking the queens and then rushing them with zeolots, (2 transfuse = 100 energy?, 100 damage to queens... i forgot how much hp the queens have) Queens have 150. But the thing is, the comp that you mention is HT/Chargelot. I don't see this being too much of any issue (though you're right in saying that would be fairly effective against the queen's themselves), as the main units that will be used with the queens are either Roaches or air tech. Pure, unfiltered, upgraded roaches do well against lots, and lots can't even hit hutas. Also, HT's are pretty high in the tech tree. SO by the time that they regularly become a part of your army, it's very possible for the Aerg to be on a third or fourth base.
Here is what i am thinking: You are going for chargelots, which requires the twilight council, and HT's are just one building away, you do not need to research the amulet nor the storm to feedback, you can warp in HT's immediately, and when warped in, they can gather energy, when kept alive, they can FB two queens. Now people mentioned Roach / Queen or Muta / Queen, I would put chargelots to clean up after the roaches and queens, but the mutas? well, im not sure if this would work but HT's can turn into archons, (From my experience, archons rape mutas, even when warped in on the middle of the battlefield). However, i am a complete noob, and i currently have no evidence with me as i am in school, and this is all in my head and past experience >_<"
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I used to play with a lot of Queen-based play in ZvZ and ZvP back in beta, but unfortunately I've adopted more main-stream tactics and gotten away from those queens for the most part... not really sure why.
Either way, I think Queens are an untapped part of the Zerg army and have recently been thinking of reincorporating them.
I can see Queens making any Roach ball exponentially better while simultaneously helping with your creep spread so hydras can support those roaches as well. I think the Queen/Roach/Hydra triangle of support will actually become a pretty awesome composition for this MU as time goes on. Throw some Infestors or Broodlords in there and you're talking straight-up sexy.
On the ZvP side, I used to do some mass queen openers and incorporate roaches. I've since moved to mass lings, which seems to work better. None-the-less, I am finally starting to want to reincorporate those Queens. Not to support roaches, but to act as meat-shields to a hydralisk mid-game. Hydras are one of the best units you can have vs everything that comes out of a gateway, but you need something to throw in front of them so they don't die super fast, Queens can again help with the creep spread, are super beefy, and you can double them up with overlord drops to give yourself a pretty impressive army (especially as they take 0 gas, freeing up that 300/300 you need for good drops). It's something I've been thinking of for a while but haven't had the time to dedicate, I think it will be hot once I do though.
Unfortunately, I don't see a lot of use for queens in ZvT. Marines just tear through them, and everything else, so fast I typically can't be wasting the minerals and supply on them, especially when they don't do much for me on the offensive end of the spectrum. Those 125hp heals seem a lot less awesome when marines will just burn down that unit in another 2 seconds anyway...
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I obs'd a game between a master toss and a diamond zerg. The zerg nydused into his base, sent a queen out first, and dropped a creep tumor. I thought that was an interesting thing to do, seeing as it maintained vision in his opponents base AND prevented buildings from being built there. Very useful for further nyduses.
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I'd like to see some diamon/master replay of that (i saw the ones from dimaga and zelniq but they are really old).
Do you have some?
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I think the op raises a very good point, re transfuse being used between Muta harass waves.
Mutas are a huge gas investment, queens are not; and since I usually have excess minerals before spire finishes anyways, maybe I could start making 3 queens per hatch. Healing just one muta makes the whole queen pay for itself -- shit, maybe I should make 2 queens for every 3 mutas :X
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On January 19 2011 04:33 Jermstuddog wrote:
...
Unfortunately, I don't see a lot of use for queens in ZvT. Marines just tear through them, and everything else, so fast I typically can't be wasting the minerals and supply on them, especially when they don't do much for me on the offensive end of the spectrum. Those 125hp heals seem a lot less awesome when marines will just burn down that unit in another 2 seconds anyway...
I think 2 areas where Queens are good in ZvT are creep spreading and muta/broodlord healing. Good Terrans will snipe creep tumors, so it's nice to be able to lay them back down. Good creep spread makes fights so much easier.
Once Broodlords hit the field, a queen escort makes them especially scary to T. Transfuse will keep the broods up vs. a few vikings, and you can also shoot at any vikings that get too close to your queens.
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On January 19 2011 05:02 nanoscorp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 04:33 Jermstuddog wrote:
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Unfortunately, I don't see a lot of use for queens in ZvT. Marines just tear through them, and everything else, so fast I typically can't be wasting the minerals and supply on them, especially when they don't do much for me on the offensive end of the spectrum. Those 125hp heals seem a lot less awesome when marines will just burn down that unit in another 2 seconds anyway... I think 2 areas where Queens are good in ZvT are creep spreading and muta/broodlord healing. Good Terrans will snipe creep tumors, so it's nice to be able to lay them back down. Good creep spread makes fights so much easier. Once Broodlords hit the field, a queen escort makes them especially scary to T. Transfuse will keep the broods up vs. a few vikings, and you can also shoot at any vikings that get too close to your queens.
Truth about the Brood Lords.
The only response that I've seen from terran is vikings, which the queens an heal through and easily sniper down, or thors. And thors get eaten alive by the broodlings relatively easily.
I want to test Battlecruisers, but I have yet to have them be used in a real game yet.
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On January 17 2011 06:29 Zelniq wrote:
yeah queens are definitely good
calling it now, in HotS the queen can morph into a matriarch with new abilities and more mobility
i lol'd
Probably. That'd be awesome. I also predict an upgrade to hydralisks by then.
[edit] come on guys! lets get some replays in here.
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On January 19 2011 05:02 nanoscorp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 04:33 Jermstuddog wrote:
...
Unfortunately, I don't see a lot of use for queens in ZvT. Marines just tear through them, and everything else, so fast I typically can't be wasting the minerals and supply on them, especially when they don't do much for me on the offensive end of the spectrum. Those 125hp heals seem a lot less awesome when marines will just burn down that unit in another 2 seconds anyway... I think 2 areas where Queens are good in ZvT are creep spreading and muta/broodlord healing. Good Terrans will snipe creep tumors, so it's nice to be able to lay them back down. Good creep spread makes fights so much easier. Once Broodlords hit the field, a queen escort makes them especially scary to T. Transfuse will keep the broods up vs. a few vikings, and you can also shoot at any vikings that get too close to your queens.
I would actually add Ultralisks as a 3rd to that as well because tumors and infusion both do TONS to help Ultras cost-effectiveness. But those are niche uses. I don't think you could 10 queen your way to T3 against a decent Terran and that makes it a bad opening in ZvT.
Either way, I think EVERYBODY should get 10+ queens once they hit T3 in ZvT, they really are that effective when paired with BLs and Ultras.
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I just had an idea that turned into some theorycrafting (and I was wondering if anyone else had thought of/tried this as well).
Speedlings and Queens with continuous carapace upgrades and teching to T3 really fast.
It's a race to get to ultras, which are already good with heals, but the extra armor means that the heals' effectiveness goes even farther. I'm normally against ultras (when Brood Lords are an option), but with Queen anti-air and heals, and massive amounts of armor and creep, I feel that they could actually be somewhat effective. Also, speedlings seem to be a less micro intensive path to go, because your heals can more easily be used on the larger queens (as opposed to roaches). The carapace upgrades also increase the lings survivability against Zealots while you're teching up.
Anyone?
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I think there are a lot of possibilities, but Lings Ultras + queens sure can be viable.
No reps atm because I want to show a really good match. Low master just sucks so much... >.<
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EPT
