EPTI'll have to try and warm up to it a bit more, but seems really interesting.
Anyone got some replays yet?
[D] Zv* - Queens rocks - Page 6
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
I'll have to try and warm up to it a bit more, but seems really interesting. Anyone got some replays yet? | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On January 19 2011 06:28 mr_tolkien wrote: I think there are a lot of possibilities, but Lings Ultras + queens sure can be viable. No reps atm because I want to show a really good match. Low master just sucks so much... >.< My fear here would be stargate play. I just don't feel comfortable with just queens to fight back vs phoenix/VR play. At the same time, the more hydras you build, the longer it takes to get Ultralisks. It would definitely need a way to incorporate more AA while still keeping the ultra rush coming quick. | ||
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GloomyBeaR
United States77 Posts
On January 19 2011 01:30 OfficerTJHooker wrote: Yeah, I'm glad you pointed out the Queen's tanking ability. A lot of people overlook the use of having no armor type, making her strong against every kind of attack (Of course, Archons will still deliver their devastating bonus damage, but Archons are so rare nowadays) and critical in fending off hellion run-bys. So true - as toss, the only things I have that counter them well are archons and HT, but Archons won't get any splash off a queen (and they take 6 hits anyways) I've gone against offensive queens only a few times on the ladder, and I do agree they can change the tide of a battle quite severely... just watch out for the HT; feedback will obviously ruin full-mana queens. | ||
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pbecot01
41 Posts
as a random unmentioned point, upgrades on queens are HUGE | ||
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
Queens are bad. They take forever to build, so if you want any number of them you'll have to continually produce them from the early game, or make a stupid amount of hatcheries mid-game. This cuts in to your droning too much. If you find a work-around (or more like 30 different work arounds tailored to your opponents build), then yes queens are beasts. However so are motherships, battlecruisers, broodlords etc. There might be a time and place, I doubt it'll be consistent though. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On January 19 2011 06:45 pbecot01 wrote: dont queens do more dps against air then hydras? and scale better with upgrades? and have more hps plus transfuse? someone void rushed me once when i was massing queens. 5 vrs vs 4 queens...i lost no queens. as a random unmentioned point, upgrades on queens are HUGE No, queens do about 1/2 the DPS of a hydra vs air, maybe 2/3... They would scale slightly better with both upgrades, but considering they're so far behind in the offense department it wouldn't matter, 1 hydra is always > 1 queen for DPS. hp + transfuse are the main reasons to get queens in number. Every time you transfuse a hydra, roach, or queen, you effectively built 1 more of that unit instantly in battle for free. 2 transfuses on hydras means you just bought 2 more hydras for 150 minerals and 2 supply (didn't even cost you a larva), not a bad trade-off at all. The best composition vs air units would be queens + anything that can shoot up, be that corruptors, hydras, or mutalisks. As long as it can hit air, adding queens to it will multiply its effectiveness. | ||
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donut boi
United States154 Posts
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SlacKs
Sweden20 Posts
TvZ mass queen check ^^ | ||
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Keifru
United States179 Posts
Constant Queen production has been doing wonders for me in fending off mass hellion or mass banshee play- they also do decently well when mopping up stragglers when you've melted most of their marines and have a handful of lings chipping away as well. I had 3 queens of full energy deal with being poked by a full surround of SCVs, a marauder, and a couple marines for a very long time. (To bad they didn't have enough burst DPS to kill SCVs before they could get repaired back up though...) | ||
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valheru
Australia966 Posts
On January 19 2011 07:53 Keifru wrote: You know whats weird? PDD blocks Queen shots. It really doesn't make sense to me, since the Queen is stabbing things with her claws, not shooting projectiles. Constant Queen production has been doing wonders for me in fending off mass hellion or mass banshee play- they also do decently well when mopping up stragglers when you've melted most of their marines and have a handful of lings chipping away as well. I had 3 queens of full energy deal with being poked by a full surround of SCVs, a marauder, and a couple marines for a very long time. (To bad they didn't have enough burst DPS to kill SCVs before they could get repaired back up though...) It only blocks shots v air | ||
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SlapMySalami
United States1060 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-181914.jpg) This is a 2500~ Master game and it's the game I've played using a large amount of queens | ||
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TALegion
United States1187 Posts
I'm still only Plat, but I've been doing some 1-base roach play in ZvZ, and lots of Queens + Roaches against just roaches = auto win. If they expand, I expand. If they push, I easily defend with spine crawlers, queens, and roaches. Mutas don't work. Slings/Blings don't work. Hydras don't work. I out-roach them, so Roaches don't work. I honestly can't think of how to beat this (assuming they do a zergling runby or some kind of Nydus trick). Edit: I'm probably being over confident, but I honestly haven't lost a ZvZ yet that I didn't get 7-pooled. | ||
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embries
United States70 Posts
The one spot I feel like this could be a BOL to is heavy heavy bio pressure vs. terran. 2/3/4 rax type pressure. It also could be that I'm just not used to the style and should be getting larger ling/bling numbers, but if anyone has a replay of this type it would be much appreciated. Gonna keep practicing it in customs and vs. ai a bit more in the meantime. | ||
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NTGKOA
United States46 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On January 19 2011 07:15 Jermstuddog wrote: No, queens do about 1/2 the DPS of a hydra vs air, maybe 2/3... Queen DPS VS air : 9 Hydra DPS VS air : 14 Difference : Hydras have 5/6 range VS 7, have 90HP VS 175HP+1 armor, cost more (gas), don't have one of the best spells in the game, and require a special tech (and of course an upgrade to become useful). So no, definitly, queens are better anti air. By far. On January 19 2011 16:43 NTGKOA wrote: It's not a law... It's an opinion just like everything else in this forum. You didn't say it like this. | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
Queen vs roach Queens have the same dps vs ground, more HP, same armor, aren't "armored", don't cost gas/larva, have awesome spells, don't require addition tech (roach warren) and attack air. Roaches have half the mineral cost, higher range, armor does not reduce damage as much, can fast heal with burrow, can burrow move, and have faster movement speed, especially off creep. I may have missed a couple of points, but you get the general idea. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-182039.jpg) (don't really take the supplies into account at the end, this builds maxs you very fast). Also notice at the end how fast my gas start to rise : this is were the fun starts, as you can transition into just anything ! | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On January 19 2011 21:44 mr_tolkien wrote: Queen DPS VS air : 9 Hydra DPS VS air : 14 Difference : Hydras have 5/6 range VS 7, have 90HP VS 175HP+1 armor, cost more (gas), don't have one of the best spells in the game, and require a special tech (and of course an upgrade to become useful). So no, definitly, queens are better anti air. By far. You didn't say it like this. On January 19 2011 22:18 LAN-f34r wrote: When I first saw this I thought "how silly, somebody thinks queens are fighting units!". But then i actually looked at the queen. And for those who haven't... Queen vs roach Queens have the same dps vs ground, more HP, same armor, aren't "armored", don't cost gas/larva, have awesome spells, don't require addition tech (roach warren) and attack air. Roaches have half the mineral cost, higher range, armor does not reduce damage as much, can fast heal with burrow, can burrow move, and have faster movement speed, especially off creep. I may have missed a couple of points, but you get the general idea. Both of these are missing the crucial factor of armor. having just 1 armor reduces a queens air DPS to 8 while it reduces a hydra from 14.5 to 13.25 (this means queens do 62% of a hydras damage vs unarmored targets and 60% vs armored) Armor devastates a queens ground attack even more because its 2 hits for 4 every second. So vs something like a zealot, a queen goes from doing 8 DPS to 6 DPS, a 25% dps loss because of 1 armor, lets not even talk about +1 armor zealots, which would literally cut queen DPS in half. Queens are not good for their DPS and saying they are better AA than hydras is just a wrong statement. Though it is equally wrong to say hydras are better than queens. Proper AA, if that's the goal, should have probably a 2:1 hydra:queen ratio. And a solid ground army composition would involve Roaches, Hydras, and Queens all on creep. Maybe something like a 4:1:1 ratio depending on what you're fighting against obviously. edit: Just to be clear, I am in complete agreement that the queen is an underestimated and underutilized unit from the combat perspective. But her strength isn't in her fighting stats, they're terrible. It's in the fact that Queens can easily multiply the life of nearby units, especially when they are in number themselves. | ||
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Bswhunter
Australia954 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
The more critical aspect would be the energy loss, new queens don't have energy and are therefore useless. | ||
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