EPT[D] Zv* - Queens rocks - Page 7
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On January 20 2011 00:39 mr_tolkien wrote: I just forced a tank line with queens, it's so sexy... This is one use that I wish I had time to play around with. When T has pushed on creep with their tank line, it's so smart to throw 3-5 queens in to absorb the first volley or two while the ling/bling/roach comes in during the 3 second CD, but it's so hard to think about doing that when you're in the middle of a game doing your routine. I also want to play with the idea of early roaches in ZvT with a forward queen or two. Marines are only slightly better than Roaches to begin with, so throwing a queen in there and land even one heal could change the whole fight. GAHH I need more time! | ||
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bluecake
45 Posts
if you want to attack or anything you have to engage on creep only. it's quite hard to do that since most players will be killing off your creep, that will then leave your queens stranded. mass transfuse is really great but its not as useful early on in the game since i doubt you will be transfusing on roaches nonstop. good for ultras and bls though.. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On January 17 2011 05:38 mr_tolkien wrote: This is the main reason why I like the queen. She does not consume any larva and she does not requires vespene gas. She has an air attack with 9 range, too. They are maybe the most cost effective tank in the game, AND THEY COST NEITHER GAS NEITHER LARVAES. It is also a psychological thing: In my experience, the queen is often considered a high-value target. While she is sacrificed, she buys me time to reposition a spine crawler or to get another round of lings. | ||
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CidO
United States695 Posts
On January 20 2011 00:50 bluecake wrote: i think they are good against air only and maybe tanking yes..but it's that their movement is greatly limited that they can't move out of creep..that's what really turns me off from using queens. if you want to attack or anything you have to engage on creep only. it's quite hard to do that since most players will be killing off your creep, that will then leave your queens stranded. mass transfuse is really great but its not as useful early on in the game since i doubt you will be transfusing on roaches nonstop. good for ultras and bls though.. I think it's the opposite of your last statement. Early game it's important to not let as many units as possible die, early game under pressure goals would be 1. stay alive. 2. don't put yourself in a hole that you can't come out of. Transfuse is 50 energy but 125 life. That's basically a full heal on a single roach, crawler (since you can heal buildings) or what have you. Against early air pressure (banshee/voidray/phoenix) it's basically stopped by 2 queens (against 1 air unit) or 3 queens (against 2-3 units any more and you should have statics or other ata etc). They're not meant to be "attack units" they are defensive, about the same cost as a static D but it costs food, but it has abilities. Creep spreads crazy fast when you have 3-4 tumors going at once Queens are great AtA early on. If you do 14 hatch 15 pool or any similar variation with 2 hatches before 18 and you're getting sling speed, it's a great investment to get a 3rd queen going. | ||
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1Lamb1Rice
United States435 Posts
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d_wAy
United States104 Posts
Mid-Late game I have been pairing queens with my experimentations in nydus theorycrafting. After seeing a protoss push out with a warm prism to reinforce instead of dropping proxy pylons closer and closer. I thought about using nydus canals a lot more. I generally drop a nydus between every two expos and over the long-run its not very expensive at all. During the battle, when I engage in a position I like, I will drop 1-2 nydus's behind my forces and rally my hatcheries to their nydus entrances. I was always really annoyed at how P could just eliminate a defender's advantage with warpgate tech -- but then I realized Zerg can do it better, and faster. As my creep spread historically has never been that good, I used nydus canals also to transport mass queens, that way I could use queens in battle. I've been having a fair bit of success combining nydus and queen tech to combat immobility (not commenting on the race, just commenting on my poor creep spread). Also, when I do find that my BL's are exposed, I can generally drop a nydus out of sight and stream in the queens to transfuse + stream out units to protect. This combination allows Zerg to protect and utilize its most immobile units effectively. Not to mention if you are running on a high eco -- isn't it completely worth it to drop a nydus worm behind the opponent to outflank? I really don't find nydus to be as "gimmicky" as people think it is -- partially because everyone is trying to use them in outrageously aggressive ways. Why nydus the main when it is a perfectly good, albeit expensive for this function, to achieve an easy flank in tight positions by sending half of your troops instantly behind an opponent. I plan on doing a full post on creative nydus play at some point in the future (and I will definitely experiment with new ways to incorporate queens into my style). The other way I have been using mass queens is sunken colony / roach pushes against protoss. Cute and insanely hard to hold off as protoss. I find the most success with this build after holding off a 3gate expand --> 5-6 gate push. If I can hold off, then I generally have creep halfway across the map or almost at his base. I move the sunkens forward along with the roaches. On Shakuras, I would tend to nydus behind the push in order to reinforce quicker but this is completely optional and just something that I like to do stylistically. Also since my creep spread was subpar when I started to experiment, having a nydus made getting patches of creep across the map so much easier. In fact, if I was sure that P wouldn't spot me -- I would move the sunkens across the map without there being creep even. Then nydus / poop creep / set sunkens in place / push -- you can save the queens if it fails and youll have a giant patch of creep outside his base. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On January 20 2011 02:29 Existor wrote: Queen anti-air range is 9 VS hydra aa-range is 5+1 range 7, please don't spread misinformation. | ||
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code_
United States3 Posts
Creep like mad, great tanks, transfusion... I'm not really sure how I won any games with 1queen per hatch before this. Then again, I guess that's what being a bronzie is :D Thanks for the tips, everyone. | ||
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
Just make sure she doesn't die going there XD | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
Actually, why don't we just start linking reps to this thread of Queen pushes? | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On January 20 2011 04:13 Antisocialmunky wrote: It would be cool to see a Daily where people had to have queens with their main attack. Actually, why don't we just start linking reps to this thread of Queen pushes? On January 20 2011 03:32 Malminos wrote: More replays plz As you can see, we are currently EXPERIMENTING with this. People will mainly look at the first few replays with a big interest. I just wait to have a good number of replays where I win with this strat against standard builds, and then they will be released. Btw I'll do a cast on it (I'm a French caster, doing Daily «à la» Day[9]), I'll sub it (or voice over it) in English  | ||
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Malminos
United States321 Posts
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d_wAy
United States104 Posts
it's also nice to know that zerg units say the same thing in all versions of the game.. shows solidarity yo.. zerg hwaiting | ||
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Parra
United States152 Posts
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thurst0n
United States611 Posts
I'm really looking forward to this becoming more and more standard. I think one of the things that seperates top level from low levels is just doing more with what you have, and queens are good at so many differant things (larvae inject, creep spread, transfuse, anti air, tanking) It's great to see a high level player trying to swing the meta game for all matchups. Zerg is getting huge help right now from high level palyers. I may just have to stick with zerg instead of continuing to play random/toss. Zerg is by far my fav race, but I cannot stand getting screwed without enough drones. Keep doin what you do TolkieN! Queens are slow because they're fat :-) I feel like they should be able to hustle at least as fast as a tank or immortal, maybe they do... I'll have to check the speeds for these units. | ||
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d_wAy
United States104 Posts
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Johnny_Vegas
United States239 Posts
ZvP, Jungle Basin, I'm 2400ish diamond, he was an "even match". Neither one of us are great players. He was trying some sort of Void Ray into 3wg rush, off 1 base, still the spine/queen defense totally shut it down. REPLAY: http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=34110 What I REALLY like about mass queens is that because my early game defense was 2 spines at my ramp and a bunch of queens, I was able to devote all of my larvae towards drones. I also mined gas more slowly than usual, giving me more minerals, and more drones. I got my lair much later than usual. Come to think of it, DTs woulda owned me hard as I had no detection, but then again I scouted him going warp gate, and he showed a void ray, so I was ok. | ||
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