200 workers exercise - benchmarks - Page 3

On January 14 2011 11:21 REM.ca wrote:


Let me specify ONCE AGAIN that this exercise has value especially, if not uniquely, to very new players. Players who don't use hotkeys, who queue their units, who get supply blocked, who forget to build workers.

Those are fundamental problems that are resolved through development of automatisms/muscle memory which can only be obtained through repetitive practice.

This excercise is a fun way to practice these things without overloading the mind with other conscious decisions like build orders, expansion timings, unit counters, etc. It also helps to understand WHY getting supply blocked, banking minerals, etc can slow you down. Since the exercise is simple, it clears the mind to be able to observe and analyze these things.

I hate resorting to metaphors but what the hell, let's do a sports comparison: when you want to get better at a sport that uses a vast array of skills, you do so by practicing these skills individually and repetitively. You don't play a real baseball game every practice, instead, you do drills to work on your throwing, your catching, your hitting, etc.

On January 14 2011 05:53 REM.ca wrote:
-Do not use macro abilities (mules, queens, chronoboost) **note that the use of these abilities can be added later on as the next step to the exercise.

On January 14 2011 13:05 telfire wrote:
This actually sounds like a very interesting and useful exercise, or it did until I read this:



Why? The only purpose of this activity would be to enforce hotkey and other muscle movements. WHY would you want to reinforce straight up bad play?

That rule makes this exercise completely meaningless and worthless in my eyes. I'm not trying to be a douche, but what is the point? It will actually be extremely detrimental to one's learning to practice without using mechanics! People need to use the mechanics and develop the muscle memory for them, especially new players!

Without the macro mechanics, it is literally a completely different game and I don't think it has any value whatsoever to StarCraft 2. It's like making a custom map and rebalancing all of the stats on the units, and then trying to get a feel for what units are good against what. It's a different game, a different way of doing things, and it no longer holds any bearing whatsoever on the actual game.

Personally, I would be quite afraid to do this activity and report any results. I would feel like I was moving backwards, and the "practice" would actually set me back a TON.

My 2¢

On January 14 2011 06:22 kob112358 wrote:
diamond zerg, did it in 11:54. after which i took my drones/queens and rolled the very easy computer did it on metalopolis

On January 14 2011 13:38 zachMEISTER wrote:
Diamond/IM SO FUCKING AWESOME AT THIS GAME level players seem to have forgotten what it's like to struggle with the basic mechanics involved with playing this game. Half of you guys act like everyone to ever touch the game has played an RTS before. Hell I played SC1 back in 02/03 and I am having the hardest time continually building probes in all of my games and I've had prior experience. Granted, said prior experience was a different style of play (fastest possible/BGH) but the basic idea of the game is still there. But, think of all the people who bought the game because of the awesome cinematic Blizzard put on the television that have never played an RTS before. Then, make the connection that an exercise like this doesn't do anything but help reinforce the idea of always remembering to check your nexus and make sure there's a probe in production.

Part of macro is learning to constantly build workers (no matter to particular style of the race). So, even without using the "macro abilities" that each race is graced with, it's still a concrete exercise for new players (such as myself). Learning to continually think back to "shit, gotta build probes" isn't something that everyone naturally thinks. Some of you seem to have forgotten what it's like to struggle as a new player woth such a deeply strategic and involved game.

On January 14 2011 14:15 iamke55 wrote:


Wow, what a terrible post. You think Michael Jordan just played games of basketball all day? Forget shooting practice, forget hitting the gym, just play games over and over!

On January 14 2011 13:38 zachMEISTER wrote:
Diamond/IM SO FUCKING AWESOME AT THIS GAME level players seem to have forgotten what it's like to struggle with the basic mechanics involved with playing this game. Half of you guys act like everyone to ever touch the game has played an RTS before. Hell I played SC1 back in 02/03 and I am having the hardest time continually building probes in all of my games and I've had prior experience. Granted, said prior experience was a different style of play (fastest possible/BGH) but the basic idea of the game is still there. But, think of all the people who bought the game because of the awesome cinematic Blizzard put on the television that have never played an RTS before. Then, make the connection that an exercise like this doesn't do anything but help reinforce the idea of always remembering to check your nexus and make sure there's a probe in production.

Part of macro is learning to constantly build workers (no matter to particular style of the race). So, even without using the "macro abilities" that each race is graced with, it's still a concrete exercise for new players (such as myself). Learning to continually think back to "shit, gotta build probes" isn't something that everyone naturally thinks. Some of you seem to have forgotten what it's like to struggle as a new player woth such a deeply strategic and involved game.

On January 14 2011 14:33 procyonlotor wrote:


Speaking as a platinum level player, that is, a player who will still needs to refine his macro, I agree with you partly, but this exercise is not as useful as it could be. In particular, there is the fact that all you do is make probes out of nexus. It's easy to, say, hotkey all your nexus to 1 and spam E, building a pylon here and there. Even adding in Chronoboost will not make it much harder.

The real challenge, and therefore the real exercise, is constantly building workers and using macro abilities in a ladder game, when you are scouting, building your army, defending, attacking, expanding, worrying about what your opponent is doing, which is when you are distracted and mostly likely to forget about macro. That is when this exercise is useful.

My suggestion would be to try something like this: get to X workers on Y bases before Z minutes while fighting the A.I. Or simply get a friend/practice partner to spar with you. Your only worries all game long should be workers and staying alive.

Anyhow, these are the numbers I got on my try (using chronoboost): 13-ish minutes on 10 nexus.

Also, I think there should be another rule: you are not allowed to queue more than one worker at any one base, unless you're playing zerg.

On January 14 2011 14:23 Mali__Slon wrote:


lol
MJ did all those boring stuff, because he get paid, u are not. Plus he had coaches telling him what to do, which u dont have.

I really have enough work to to do while at my job, and dont need to add SC2 to that list.

On January 14 2011 14:57 eatmyshorts5 wrote:

How dare you spit in Michael Jordan's name, and MJ got his first dollar once he got into the NBA. And if you think MJ had it in the bag since he was a kid, well he got cut from his HS varsity team his junior year, he had a long way to go. I always thought the key to success in ANYTHING, was development of fundamental skills, aka in the context of SC2 the most important concept is macro which starts with constant worker production.