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2300 Diamond Zerg
How do you deal with DTs when you're on 3, 4 or 5+ bases? I usually miss the first 3-4 and they walk up and kill a hatchery, so I morph and overseer and kill them. Then there can be 1-2 at other bases killing drones. So now all of sudden I need an overseer for every base and 2 spine crawlers for every base and an overseer for my army. I usually get flustered when this happens and it takes me a while to get all of these DT defenses up and HUGE damage is done while I'm scrambling to do so.
What should I do? Is there an alternative to overseer + 2 spines at each base? I feel like it's difficult to scout DTs because they can come at any point in the game, the building looks like a pylon while warping and it's pretty easy to miss when the protoss is spread out of 2-3+ bases. This is why I usually get caught off guard by the first 3-4 and lose a hatchery. Also, it then becomes very difficult to expand any more because I have to park my army on the hatch while it's building to make sure a DT doesn't walk up and deny it.
I hate DTs  , please help.
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Probably just go fucking kill him. If he's investing so much into DT tech and you scout it you can do some damage if hes rushing DT's or even if hes slowly adding DT's (they're expensive!) so you should have a bigger army.
Also - a replay would be helpful.
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If the zerg is on 3-5+ bases it can go without saying that the protoss did not "rush" to DTs. And depending on how the game has played out the zerg wont always have the larger army. Here is the most recent replay that Cambam is talking about. I was his opponent.
http://screplays.com/replays/atcnayr/14582
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You need to be able to scout it.. Sac and overlord, use a changeling.. whatever you can do to get that scout.. you want to kno its coming before it does.. other-wise you are probably in huge trouble. And if you are really afraid of it you can always just get an overseer and some spines at every expo but I recommend trying to scout it first.. always your best bet.
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Count his gas and watch his tech. Twilight with high zealot, low stalker numbers means potential DTs. If you already have overseers, then changeling his base if possible.
Quite honestly, if you're on 3-4 bases, you probably couldn't go wrong with a bit of static D. The real goal of static defenses are to stall for time so your mobile army can get there and kill off harass. On 1-2 bases, you probably don't need it. On a higher number of bases, then you'll take more economic damage from not having enough static and getting harrassed decently.
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if you connect all your bases with creep, your army is pretty mobile, and it's possible to make do with 1 spine to stall. as for the overseer, you could invest in a spore crawler, which are pretty cheap instead.
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I think as Protoss starts abusing Dark Templar tech in the late game and multiple hatcheries, Zerg is going to need Spine Crawlers for defense and also good hatchery walls, similar to Brood War. The problem would then be the Protoss throwing Pylons everywhere just to abuse Warp Gate.
On December 30 2010 15:54 thekibk wrote:
if you connect all your bases with creep, your army is pretty mobile, and it's possible to make do with 1 spine to stall. as for the overseer, you could invest in a spore crawler, which are pretty cheap instead.
Two Dark Templar can deserve a Spore Crawler in seconds, making it pointless to rely on it solely. Maybe to delay.
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You can either attempt to go for the kill (however very risky if he defends it properly your fucked) or use all that extra minerals you little Zergies forget to spend and just get spore/spine colonies.
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What I've been doing is make a spore in a place thats somewhat hard to surround and 3 spine crawlers around the mineral line. It's been working pretty well, even just to delay until your army gets there.
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You really have to expect DTs in the late game.
It's smart, it's standard, and it's brutally effective for a toss player to make 4 DTs and send them to 4 different places.
A spore and a couple spines is exactly what you need to deal with this kind of thing. Sure, 4 DTs will wreck a spore before spines can get to work, but it buys you the valuable time you need to get some units over there to deal with it.
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A spore + 2 spines is good in the mid game, since he is almost certainly not going to be sending more than 1-2 DTs to a base at a time, and you'll be on max 3. Once you get to 4+ bases, you have more than enough gas to morph an overseer for each base, and drop 3 spines. That should fend off 95% of DT attacks. If he sends enough DTs to take down all of that, your amy will be there, and if you can wipe 4-5+ DTs with minimal losses, you will likely be able to counter and rape him, unless he's already super far ahead, and which point you've probably already lost.
All that being said, DTs are fucking hard to deal with. I lost a game earlier today to DTs - I scouted, but I blundered a little bit with him opening my backdoor on blistering and me not noticing it somehow (complete facepalm), then him sneaking in DTs. If DTs manage to take down 5-7 drones, or a hatch, in most cases you just lost the game. You need to be prepared, because if you're not DTs will end you.
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Just another Gimmick of the non Zerg races :D.
Fortunately the advice here is pretty solid, i'll just add in my own take to it here.
On 2base your army is usually in position so i prefer to not get much Static D, however on the 3rd 4th/5th i always get those 2/3 spines + 1 spore crawler vs P
It's a pretty small mineral only cost 300-400 mins to have a very effective stalling method.. and since i'm usually mutaling vs P i have a few spare minerals unless i'm dead on with my injects and have a macro hatch.. floating 1k mins isn't uncommon for me at the 15 minute mark.. and that just happens to cover the static D for 4 bases.
At this stage in the game it becomes too much of a gamble to not invest in a good defence
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Scout it obviously is the first best thing to do.
The second is build two SPORES at your mineral lines. (Not spine crawlers lol). And then you see them, you react with whatever forces are stationed nearest the mineral lines.
That always pisses me off when I get DTs only to find out that they've been blind countered. =/
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I do this all the time to zergs counter it the same way as it is countered in Brood Wars spore at every expo an maybe a spine so you can commit your amy somewhere else
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If the game is getting to a frantic stage where you have four expos and DT's are roaming about while you are trying to macro and fight at the same time, i say just suck it up and build spines and spores on every mineral line. If you invest like 800 minerals and some larva you will mostly be in a much safer position.
The spores are good at messing up his observers that are bound to be flying around as well.
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When you are on 4-5 bases and ever see twilight council, and they have at least 3 bases (with all 6 geysers) you should build 1 spore and 1-2 spine crawlers at each base that is naked. If the protoss is on 2 bases, you should be able to handle it even if they catch you off guard and go kill them.
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get a spine crawler and 1 spore crawler at each hatch. bw style.
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The easiest way to counter DT in mid game. Make 1spore+spire crawler at your mineral line. 1 Spore should cover your entire mineral line while 1 spire destroy that 1 DT.
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When u dt harass I usually send them in pairs. 2 dts kill spine or spore fast. So its better to have overseers since dts can't hit them. Like someone above said try to move in for the kill. Usually when my dts are exposed I just warp them and make archons. This is what you should be scarred of. Archons deal big splash damage vs bio. And can be good tanks. So watch out for this
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If multiple bases are connected by a single choke, having an overseer over top of your army will shut down harass on many of your bases.
The commitment to a few Overseers to eliminate DTs is cost effective, and takes up no time in your queues. Just camp an overseer over top of each base and put down a couple spines, it'll pay for itself.
Fungal reveals DTs for 6 seconds. You can keep a couple burrowed around your base. Throw some eggs, fungal the DTs so they are not in range of anything important, and have at them.
You have 3-5 bases! Leave a couple mutas there, build more spines, advance your creep so that you can put spines so they protect multiple entrances, etc.
Dark Shrines take forever to build. Push in, and either take it out or kill him.
I've been way ahead and lost to this type of play before, it is very annoying, but you should have the income to deny it.
Edit:
If you can catch the first waves he may just abandon DTs for awhile. If I don't see much army I will usually get two overseers and scout with one, the other guards my chokes. I've won a lot of games because a pile of DTs walk through my army and insta-pop when they get within range of my overseer.
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What about your main? My main is typically bigger than all my expos and would need 4-6 spine crawlers and 4-6 spore crawlers to cover every building in it. How do I stop him from killing off my hydra den or evo chamber or whatever whenever I move out? Same kind of goes for my expos, if I have any tech at them. It's hard to build every building in range of a single spore crawler.
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Something that i do now vs all protoss, when my third is done i put down a spore and 2 spines at every base (excluding the main on some maps)
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You can set an overseer to patrol. For example, on Blistering Sands, I'll set my overseer to patrol between my natural and my main, and try to only build any technology buildings between the two. They've got 11-range detection, which is surprisingly distant when you're used to how little vision every other unit/building has.
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get 2spines+a spore @ each base, you will prlly accidentally over drone (min drones:55 max 80, most common 60-70)and in this case, this is a qucik way to get rid of drones  . dts late game are so strong for toss its not even funny :>
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EPT
