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I generally have this problem, believe it or not. When it comes to late-game, I still end up spamming SCV production, and will often get more than 100 by the end of the game. This hurts, because when I am maxed, half of it is from workers alone.....
2 very recent examples - this was for the most recent Day[9] Funday Monday, against a 1800 pt diamond and this was against a friend of mine. I generally have this problem in late-game situations..... I'd give you more replays, but I often delete them.....
I know that I want to stop somewhere between 60 and 80. I generally try to go by the "3 well saturated bases or 4 low saturated and stop" type approach, but I end up spamming scv production anyways.....
How do you (preferably higher level players) remember key points to stop production of workers? And actually act on it?
EDIT - thought I should add in - I also have this problem as Zerg. It sucks when I max out, and have a shitty army cause 120 food is stuck in workers.....
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I make SCVs when it looks like I don't have enough, and stop making SCVs when it looks like I have enough. Just drag a box over your entire mineral line and if theres more then one page then you have enough.
You don't actually need more then 60 workers, imo. You're never really going to have to have more then two fully mining bases in most games.
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When you realize you have too many workers, or its super-late game and income is no longer important and you want more supply room, you can always suicide workers into your opponent. They make great scouts too!
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use your scvs to repair your mech /medivacs. =D who knew medivacs could tank so well <3
drones. i stop after saturation like 24 /base. When i expo like the larva popl before hatch finishs, then i start drone production for that expo.
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60-65 is usually more than enough where you can even add several into your army comp to handle the repairs on any mechanical or soak a little damage.
I notice I usually slow on worker creation when i finally saturate my third (obviously if you didn't lose any Scv's on the way)
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On December 07 2010 14:22 whitelynx wrote:
I make SCVs when it looks like I don't have enough, and stop making SCVs when it looks like I have enough. Just drag a box over your entire mineral line and if theres more then one page then you have enough.
False. Please don't spread misinformation. You have enough SCVs way before you go over one page.
To OP:
2 SCVs per mineral node/chunk is almost full saturation, something like 80 or 90%. 3 SCVs is full saturation for all normal bases. Generally, most pros go for 2 SCV's per node.
If your Command Center is not centered on the mineral line, then obviously you'll need more SCVs to reach full saturation on nodes that are farther away.
Generally, each base on Blizzard maps have 8 mineral nodes, meaning 16 SCV's per mineral line is the number to go for.
The exception to this rule is when you're planning on Manyarding, which is transferring workers from your first base to an expansion. In this case, you can go further than the 16 SCVs, because you're planning on moving a bunch to a new base later.
Another exception is when you're going for your 4th base. Usually, you won't get your 4th up to full saturation when your main starts being mined out. Sometimes, if you've been stuck on 2 bases for a while, even your third won't be fully saturated. What you do then is build some new workers at your 3rd/4th, and transfer SCVs from your main as mineral nodes start disappearing.
Additional information, as well as where I got my 2 SCV/mineral node information, can be found on Liquipedia.
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To clarify, the OP knows roughly how many workers he should have, but is asking for cues he can look for in order to know when he should stop making SCV's.
(Cues besides manually looking at each mineral line)
I personally have no good answer to the question, except that the "cue" is likely to change depending on the flow of the game, which indeed brings us back to the "looking at your mineral line" suggestions, which are obvious. So, you're boned, I think.
Hopefully, a better player has an answer.
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Trust me, if I'm playing seriously, I'll even make sure that the closest mineral patches get doubled up first during my opening to give me those extra minerals..... I'm not a terrible player..... I'm not good, but I'm not terrible.....
Hell, my very first post on this site was pretty much the exact opposite - I had the impression that 1 scv per patch was ideal (in BW), but then again, back then I never expanded until I ran out of minerals anyways.....
I just keep fucking up something that I know I should be doing, and I'm asking what others do, in case there are some tricks I'm missing.
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On December 07 2010 14:31 madcow305 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 14:22 whitelynx wrote:
I make SCVs when it looks like I don't have enough, and stop making SCVs when it looks like I have enough. Just drag a box over your entire mineral line and if theres more then one page then you have enough. False. Please don't spread misinformation. You have enough SCVs way before you go over one page. To OP: 2 SCVs per mineral node/chunk is almost full saturation, something like 80 or 90%. 3 SCVs is full saturation for all normal bases. Generally, most pros go for 2 SCV's per node. If your Command Center is not centered on the mineral line, then obviously you'll need more SCVs to reach full saturation on nodes that are farther away. Generally, each base on Blizzard maps have 8 mineral nodes, meaning 16 SCV's per mineral line is the number to go for. The exception to this rule is when you're planning on Manyarding, which is transferring workers from your first base to an expansion. In this case, you can go further than the 16 SCVs, because you're planning on moving a bunch to a new base later. Another exception is when you're going for your 4th base. Usually, you won't get your 4th up to full saturation when your main starts being mined out. Sometimes, if you've been stuck on 2 bases for a while, even your third won't be fully saturated. What you do then is build some new workers at your 3rd/4th, and transfer SCVs from your main as mineral nodes start disappearing. Additional information, as well as where I got my 2 SCV/mineral node information, can be found on Liquipedia.
16 SCV is 75% saturation, not enough to make you stop making SCVs, and no pro ever goes for 2 workers per node, because it is stupid and you will never know when you are going to lose some and when you will need to maynard to a new base. Why would a command center ever not be centered? You are not zerg or protoss, you can lift.
If you simply make the bare minimum amount of SCVs, then trust me, you will not do good in a game.
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When you have ~80SCVs I would stop production. Dunno though, if Terran needs even that much, because of mules =/
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bro 30 workers per base. no more.if you keep spamming scvs you can get caught with your pants down just like a zerg who is spamming drones. Not as bad but you could be diverting those minerals into marines in a critical battle.
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I find cues in my build through replays. I'll look at my worker count and say to myself "I should have stopped here" and note the situation. For me, it's shortly after I take my third, right around when my main gets mined out. At that point I'll have enough to mine 3 bases, and I take a fourth as my main fully mines out.
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I have to say as a terran player I have never had the problem of too many scv/bases in a game but if I did I would just sac some when I was getting close to max food. Depending on how much minerals you have saved up you might not even need any for the rest of the game. Imo best way to sac them would be to raid an opponents expo with them cause they will have to pull forces just to stop your scvs lol...
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On December 07 2010 14:46 whitelynx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 14:31 madcow305 wrote:On December 07 2010 14:22 whitelynx wrote:
I make SCVs when it looks like I don't have enough, and stop making SCVs when it looks like I have enough. Just drag a box over your entire mineral line and if theres more then one page then you have enough. False. Please don't spread misinformation. You have enough SCVs way before you go over one page. To OP: 2 SCVs per mineral node/chunk is almost full saturation, something like 80 or 90%. 3 SCVs is full saturation for all normal bases. Generally, most pros go for 2 SCV's per node. If your Command Center is not centered on the mineral line, then obviously you'll need more SCVs to reach full saturation on nodes that are farther away. Generally, each base on Blizzard maps have 8 mineral nodes, meaning 16 SCV's per mineral line is the number to go for. The exception to this rule is when you're planning on Manyarding, which is transferring workers from your first base to an expansion. In this case, you can go further than the 16 SCVs, because you're planning on moving a bunch to a new base later. Another exception is when you're going for your 4th base. Usually, you won't get your 4th up to full saturation when your main starts being mined out. Sometimes, if you've been stuck on 2 bases for a while, even your third won't be fully saturated. What you do then is build some new workers at your 3rd/4th, and transfer SCVs from your main as mineral nodes start disappearing. Additional information, as well as where I got my 2 SCV/mineral node information, can be found on Liquipedia. 16 SCV is 75% saturation, not enough to make you stop making SCVs, and no pro ever goes for 2 workers per node, because it is stupid and you will never know when you are going to lose some and when you will need to maynard to a new base. Why would a command center ever not be centered? You are not zerg or protoss, you can lift.If you simply make the bare minimum amount of SCVs, then trust me, you will not do good in a game. I think you got carried away in trying to dismantle his post, he's referring to instances where there is not an equal distance to each mineral patch from the Command Center.
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You should look at the option of saccing the majority of your scv's later game because minerals that you do get can be transformed into an orbital command which gives you mules...which are each worth about 5-6 scv's. That's like another 3 core units for the price of 400 minerals that pay back with free energy regen.
That point however, varies between game to game. I would suggest maybe about 4 CC's would be the best time to completely stop scv production and use mules as the main source of income. If you think about it, by the time you get to about 3 bases, your main would be about mined out. Therefore, you don't need more than roughly 60 scv's for for mining. Also, given that your mules provide additional income, you even out at about 4 CC's if you start saccing your scv's and making more CC's.
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I've never actually experimented with the mass OC late-game strat that seems to be becoming more popular..... I might have to do that, but I don't think that'll stop my problem of building way too many workers before then..... Which is essentially a waste of resources.....
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70 workers max for any game. You make any more then you are hurting your army. If you have too much minerals then start spamming OC. You just have to learn this by feeling. I don't think there is a fast way to count all your workers during game.
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I also have this problem sometimes. It's so deeply programmed into my brain to spam SCVs all the time that I just can't stop.  It's even worse when I try to play Zerg, last game I played I ended up with 118 drones and actually lost to the computer. XD
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2 Workers per node is generally enough to have good production of units/tech options. Free minerals should be spent on extra SCVs. if you are planning to be moving out and expanding then start production of scvs when you have all your unit-producing buildings at work. Excess minerals beyond that should be applied to tech or upgrades.
To many scvs (even if you're working towards full saturation) can hurt your army alot more than you think. Having a strong economy isn't going to do anything if you're behind in supply when your opponent comes knocking on your door. Remember that those SCVS take up supply as well which in turn forces you to make more supply depots which is even less money spent on army.
Practice lots and try different combinations of worker/army ratios. And remember to make scvs "before" your expansion finishes so you can start work on getting those minerals back asap.
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EPT
