EPTPsi Storm against Zerg - Page 4
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majestouch
United States395 Posts
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dcberkeley
Canada844 Posts
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Veritassong
Canada393 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On December 12 2010 06:46 Kiarip wrote: ^ the only problem I would have with that is, does that build delay expansion too much? When do you start it? because it seems like a good speed-roach, or on shorter maps hydra push off 2 bases would break your expo. Otherwise, I might add that as a more aggressive build in my repertoire Its timing is similar to a 3wg push (slightly slower) into expand into 5-6wg push, but instead of adding on the extra wg's you tech up a bit. So the initial push is used to prevent mass droning. There is a timing window where if zerg holds your initial push they can push back into your main if they went heavy roach which is why you need to cannon up a bit. However blink stalkers (and DTs if you needed on larger maps) allows you to harass to at least make it difficult for the zerg to get a 3rd up and going while you tech (depends a lot on the map since blink effectiveness is very map dependent). But right now it seems that a lot of people underestimate the power of storm vs lings, mutas, and ultras. Everybody knows they are good vs hydras but storm is IMO one of the best response to mutaling and ultraling as a transition from 3wg push. I will admit you do have to be on your toes at all times however as getting caught by surprise in an open field can spell your doom, but as a protoss player you should be used to that with all the FFs and harassment you have to deal with. | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On December 12 2010 10:21 Kiarip wrote: I always try to transition to to HT immortal late-game, I think I'm just having trouble understanding your blink stalker build. What does the build order look like? gate gas cyber gas 2 gates, I assume, but what order do you get the nexus and twilight/blink and forge I usually go gate gas cyber gas gate twilight gate. A much easier way to remember it is just to toss down twilight before your last gate since you can easily alter the build into a 4-gate blink stalker all-in instead of 3-gate expo if you suspect they are mass droning. Also obviously save your chrono boost so you can continually CB blink and WG. Also you have to scout for mass speedlings, preferably before you drop your TC. If you see mass speedlings you should transition into something else (I usually just 3-gate sentry expand at that point). You should also harass w/ your first 2 stalkers until they have zerg speed done. You can expand as your walking toward their base or while you have them contained. You should be able to contain them w/ your blink stalkers on most maps for a good amount of time. It really depends how effective you feel your push will be honestly. If they push you back w/ mass roach you want to add a few more cannons to protect your nat since for the impending counter push. Then toss down double robo to pump out immortals. You don't have to rush the transition into HT when you see mass roach as you don't need them until hydras come out on the field. If they pushed you back w/ lings it is almost guaranteed he's going mutas, so cannon up your mineral lines and start rushing to HT. This is also where I like to go DTs as well as most zerg will start mass expanding once they have a fleet of mutas on the field. DTs will slow down their macro game a bit giving you more time to tech up. Once you have storm online leave a HT at each mineral line next to your cannons if they try to harass, and push out and take your third. | ||
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ScythedBlade
308 Posts
Zerg's get to replenish their force really easily. They're also in numbers. With collosus, you usually get it worth for your money (aka, they keep firing). But with high templars, it's always burst damage. The reason why its so effective (templar tech) in PvT is because Terrans cannot replenish and swarm you like crazy like Zerg do. (In addition, it's great for marine balls which do die in one storm, compared to zergs who don't) But storm vs Zerg is just so meh. I storm, kill a bunch of zerglings or damage a bunch of roaches, great. But then soon enough, they rush me with a nother wave and my templars just haven't regenerated enough energy. Meanwhile, collosi (as long as you don't have it die, which is pretty easy) will continue to do damage. Hence, why I find Robo tech so good against zerg. (With Terran, I would recommend you transition to templar tech. The Robo's just there because you can't transition to anything that does splash early enough. When they get too many vikings, the templar will make it easier to survive) | ||
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birdkicker
United States752 Posts
Why is everyone saying Psi Storms suck vs Z? Am i missing something really important? Once storms come it in instantly kills my hydras, zerglings, and roaches. Hydras and roaches are too slow to dodge storms and zerglings just get instantly killed by zealots. Every darn game I ZvP and the toss gets templars, i feel fucked because it just kills everything. | ||
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Ruecks
Canada60 Posts
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TheUberMango
United States77 Posts
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
Hydralisks may be slower than their BW predecessors off creep, but on creep they're faster, as well as having more hitpoints and having to contend with a weaker, less damage per tick psi storm. A religiously creep spreading Zerg doesn't need to engage his Hydralisks off creep; even a number of early Hydralisk based timing attacks feature Overlord escorts for creep spread. Generally the Roach/Hydralisk composition is used defensively during the mid-game to parry Protoss aggression while the Zerg ramps a huge gas economy to begin transitioning into Brood Lords. In this capacity, the vision and mobility benefits of creep should be exploited constantly to bait, waste, and dodge storms, only engaging at absolutely the last and best moment. Psionic Storm does rape Mutalisks, though, in the rare situations where they're stacked and take multiple ticks. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
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PulseSUI
Switzerland305 Posts
a Psi storm can affect 15-24 food worth of units in a Terran bioball, a zerg Roach/Hydra ball will, at best, have maybe 10-14 food affected, half of wich will be roaches and you will be hardpressed to storm more then 8 food worth of protoss units, especialy in a stalker army. (only expection: Colossus above army, but they have to mutch life to care about storms anyways) the terran bigest strenght, 3-4 times more DPS per Size then the other armys units, becomes there bigest weakness the second any form of Splash units hit the field. | ||
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Hyp3rion
Australia13 Posts
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
To be honest, I have no idea of what's a good build against zerg given the rigid tech structure of protoss. | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
In combination with forcefield against zerglings it gets completely insane, being hugely costeffective. Against hydra's its very strong as long as you dont fight on creep ( and really, how hard is it to use your permanitely invisible observer to move forward with your death army in the midgame just to clear out some creep tumors for free? The only thing storm isnt strong against is roaches, corruptors and ultralisks. They won't kill zergs in the blink of an eye, sure, but it softens up the army by so much in the lategame that saying the spell is mediocre is laughable. Another reason that storm is great against zerg is that it forces them to fall back. If you attack as a zerg you almost never want to leave halfway, because the protoss army will pursue you and take the free hits on the zerg army and simply walk into your expansions and tear apart your macro advantage, or the zerg army has to engage but endure the storm. You just have to accept the fact that high templar are a late game tech. You're supposed to get them on 3/4 bases. The same way as a zerg wouldn't go broodlords off of 2 base and complain about the forums that they aren't strong enough. | ||
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TIGERStarcraft
United States11 Posts
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