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Hello.
im a 2,5k Protoss Diamond (Europe) atm and i practiced a lot of PvZ lately. I think Psi storm is really not very useful in PvZ, and thats really weird for me, especially if i compare it with the PvZ in Broodwar.
Lets See:
Psi storm is not really great against Roaches, complete T3 Tech, Good Muta Micro etc. well i use psi storm sometimes if the opponent goes Muta/ling, then Blinkstalker + Second Expansion + Psi storm is a really good choice... but in 95% of my PvZ Games and the pvz games in the GSL theres no use of Psi Storm, i dont really like that . (cuz i love templars and their psi storm ;])
The ultimate combo in PvZ (200 Supply) seems to be Stalker / Colossi / Voidray, especially after 1.2 Patch, where Broodlords and Ultras die even faster against Voidrays. A Mothership is sometimes great too against Zerg for recalling Units back, or aggressive Vortex. (combined with Colossisplash its DEADLY like hell).
Well the real point of my post is: Psi storm seems to be not really important/strong in PvZ, in PvP its trash anyways and PvT there are a lot of Non-Psi builds too (Colossi/Stalker or Colossi Phoenix)
its kinda sad that tempalrs arent that important in the gameplay at the moment (at least in 1on1), what u guys think about that?
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I don't think that Psi Storm is useless (far from it), but the reason why it is rarely seen is because it is such late game tech. In the GSL specifically, the Protoss games (rare in GSL3 :'(), they are usually short and involve All-Ins or just general play that ends in a shorter game. Templars take a ton of gas to tech up to and to build and they aren't good unless you have a sizable meaty army.
I do think that they are surprisingly weak against roaches though, but zergs always have lings and hydras as well. It's true that they are also pretty horrible against mutas unless the zerg is brain dead. I feel like the psi storm should do just a little bit more DPS.
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btw i think its the same with speedlots in PvZ, u dont wanna have too much zealots in your 200 army (and u DONT need charge upgrade at all) cuz zealots die in 0,0001 seconds if they are attacking Roach/Hydra :[. Why should i ever spend 200/200 für a unit i dont wanna mass? I really dont like that Colossi are soooooo important for protoss =(.
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Well if you already have a mothership whats stopping you from getting templars if not just for storm but also some archons as well after you spam the storms for effective or ineffective damage =D
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well if psi storm would do more damage then it would be too strong in PvT i think.
Against Hydras colossi is just a better option. Look at the GSL oGsMC vs Julyzerg game on shakuras, july made air and then he build hydras, in the theory psi storm could be good in this case, but even in this game ogsmc went for lategame colossi + MASS stalker to burn the hydras to death.
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i like to use Psi Storm against roach hydra. i know its not as good as colosi are but i like templar a lot and so i still use my ht. as long as you focus on storming the hydras it works well and then you have archons which are also really good against roach hydra. I try to have immortals/zealots with my ht but it is really gas heavy to do this and it takes practice.(i still don't have it down all that well). mutas are a big issue with this build so i get a few cannons on my min line because i forge expand but archons and ht are my favorite units in the protoss army.
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I'm not a good player, but from what I've read on the boards, the reason that Psi Storm is so rarely used is because Robo for Observers and Immortals vs Roaches is considered very important and Colossi are not only tied to the same tech, but also are themselves very effective vs many units that the Stalkers, Zealots and Immortals are not so efficient at cleaning up, toss into this the fact that Colossi are good without range upgrade, and heralds of doom with it vs HT needing first the Psi Storm research, and then the Energy Upgrade before they can really pay off... in other words Psi Storm is put on the back burner really as a matter of convenience vs Colossi tech.
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Maybe psi storm will play a role in the future of PvP, the voidray change in 1.2 shows us, that blizzard want to get rid of colossi wars only in PvP.
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I disagree, any macro game (more than 2base zerg)you'll be able to utilize storm...
Most of the maps are so small and tight in SC2 compared to SCBW, it's almost impossible to micro your units away from 2 storms.
If there was ever any OP in a game it is the combination of forcefields and storm;P
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i dont say psi storm is BAD, but colossi tech + air support is in almost every game better in PvZ, and thats kinda boring sometimes imo. The main problem is, that psi doesnt help against Tier 3 Zerg and Roaches (especially with burrow) dont give a shit about storm.
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Storm affects burrowed roaches though, actually I just played a game earlier today where my roach army got stormed to death and I used burrow at 2-2 upgrade.
Quit eventhough my score was significantly higher than his.
Storm is a game changer, I tell ya...
I would say it's for midlate game, not complete tier 3 late game.
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It's not uncommon to see Stalker/Sentry/Collosus against Roach/Hydra/Corruptor where the corruptors shut down the collosus so you're forced to add templar into the mix. Properly done this can be very devastating, if zerg invests to heavily into corruptors.
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Sorry but I found them so useless.
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why mixing in templars against roach hydra corrupter, if u just can add void rays. Void rays EAT corrupter, because corrupter dont have +dmg against void rays
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On December 05 2010 12:57 commandercup wrote:
I don't think that Psi Storm is useless (far from it), but the reason why it is rarely seen is because it is such late game tech. In the GSL specifically, the Protoss games (rare in GSL3 :'(), they are usually short and involve All-Ins or just general play that ends in a shorter game. Templars take a ton of gas to tech up to and to build and they aren't good unless you have a sizable meaty army.
I do think that they are surprisingly weak against roaches though, but zergs always have lings and hydras as well. It's true that they are also pretty horrible against mutas unless the zerg is brain dead. I feel like the psi storm should do just a little bit more DPS.
Psi storm deals 80 damage which is a hell lot. I really dont understand how psi storm is bad against mutas, they litterally obliterate them because they are usually stacked.
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Obbalord, give me you identifier and we can practice some ZvP sometime
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On December 05 2010 14:07 DoctaD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 12:57 commandercup wrote:
I don't think that Psi Storm is useless (far from it), but the reason why it is rarely seen is because it is such late game tech. In the GSL specifically, the Protoss games (rare in GSL3 :'(), they are usually short and involve All-Ins or just general play that ends in a shorter game. Templars take a ton of gas to tech up to and to build and they aren't good unless you have a sizable meaty army.
I do think that they are surprisingly weak against roaches though, but zergs always have lings and hydras as well. It's true that they are also pretty horrible against mutas unless the zerg is brain dead. I feel like the psi storm should do just a little bit more DPS. Psi storm deals 80 damage which is a hell lot. I really dont understand how psi storm is bad against mutas, they litterally obliterate them because they are usually stacked.
The many times I've run into Psi Strom in in PvZ with my Mutas, I am usually able to pull them out of a Psi Storm before they take 20 damage thanks to their speed. They may usually be stacked, but they are also very fast and are habitually micro'ed even during a battle of macro to snipe high risk targets such as Immortals, Colossi, HT's or Sentries, so usually they'll not only see the storm the instant it is used, but also have them presently under their control to move them out immediately.
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teching to templar is just a pain in the ass vs an aggressive zerg though =\ storm just melts the shit out of hydras and mutas though. like lobo said i think it works better to go colossi then tech after your colossus ball is out and he's probably making 1000 corruptors.
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On December 05 2010 13:08 Obbalord wrote:
i dont say psi storm is BAD, but colossi tech + air support is in almost every game better in PvZ, and thats kinda boring sometimes imo. The main problem is, that psi doesnt help against Tier 3 Zerg and Roaches (especially with burrow) dont give a shit about storm.
Well it all depends how you play the late game.
If you use 8+ immortals, then both roaches and ultras become horrible choices against you, and corruptors can't kill templars like they can kill colossi. Also, broodlords make colossi considerably less effective, but don't really affect the effectiveness of templar, and they can be stormed, and having archons allows you to handle lings and mutas reasonably well, so there's definitely a way to play PvZ with templar that works imo.
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oooooh idk. getting enough HTs out and controlling them well can be a major pain, but carpet storming to escape and cut off escape routes isn't unheard of. I can see your point, that lategame collosi would be more useful, but this applies to most matchups? and a templar tech switch over from collosi will catch the zerg off guard if he's got lots of useless corurptors. Also, feedback on overseers, queens and infestors, storm on ling infestor bling hydra or even mutas. There are lots of uses imo, though when brood lords come out IDK what to do as toss lol. I usually finish the game with broods as Zerg.
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EPT
