EPTPvP, Collosus's Demise. New and Original Strategy. - Page 5
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dAko
Switzerland18 Posts
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s4m222
United States272 Posts
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DaemonX
545 Posts
On November 21 2010 23:35 Kwaa wrote: Um, they can?If only Archons could destroy forcefields.. Archon through HT tech = research free spell called Feedback, which one-shots sentries. Feedback spam, retreat, morph, attack. (75 energy < 100 gas) GG. | ||
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dAko
Switzerland18 Posts
On November 22 2010 18:44 DaemonX wrote: Um, they can? Archon through HT tech = research free spell called Feedback, which one-shots sentries. Feedback spam, retreat, morph, attack. (75 energy < 100 gas) GG. hmm... that sounds interesting. Wort a shot i think. How about this as an Opening in PvZ? Sounds really strong and it transitions very good into IST. Also it should be good against any T1-T2 units shouldn't it? | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On November 22 2010 18:44 DaemonX wrote: Um, they can? Archon through HT tech = research free spell called Feedback, which one-shots sentries. Feedback spam, retreat, morph, attack. (75 energy < 100 gas) GG. That's all fine in theory but: 1) You can't snipe sentries with HT outside battle. No way, HT being sniped by stalkers is a much more probable outcome. 2) Any HT in battle that is there for feedbacking is not an Archon. He deals 0 damage. This could work, but in reality your zealots and archons will be way ahead your HT, just because of how unit compositions work. For your success, your back line (HT) must reach (in casting range) his back line (sentries), whereas to accomplish their job their back line (sentries) must reach your front line (zealots/archons). Their task is much much easier, meaning you will fail more often than not. Face it, you will not be able to feedback sentries on equal resources if you don't commit to the fight (trading a HT for each sentry is hardly a solution), nor you will be able to feedback sentries before they throw enough FFs (because of the formation issues described above) if you do commit. And unless you research storm (which makes it an entirely different build), HT's are much worse fighters than sentries, they take too much time to morph. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On November 22 2010 19:10 dAko wrote: hmm... that sounds interesting. Wort a shot i think. How about this as an Opening in PvZ? Sounds really strong and it transitions very good into IST. Also it should be good against any T1-T2 units shouldn't it? Archons were hardly a viable opening against muta in BW, in SC2 they are even worse. At best you will be contained for like 10 minutes, desperately trying to make your archons hit a single mutalisk, with the zerg chipping away at your probes slowly, but reliably. | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
Not sure about using dark templars, as you will need as many minerals as possible IMO. | ||
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Wartortle
Australia504 Posts
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Wayem
France455 Posts
On November 23 2010 00:22 Jayzo wrote: if the problem is FF could u use hallucinated colossi to break them? Sadly, doesn't work anymore. :p | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On November 23 2010 00:22 Jayzo wrote: if the problem is FF could u use hallucinated colossi to break them? No, I'll let you figure that one out. Well I tried this, and It failed pretty badly. The chargelot worked well early on, but once they realized what I was doing they played defensively and abused the hell out of cliffwalking...its been pretty frustrating. The cliffwalk is what really kills this build imo. | ||
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Brandus
148 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
As for the efficacy, it's cost-effective in un-microed battles on open fields against collosi compositions until the army sizes get large. The first problem is that the collosi composition has a a huge range/splash advantage. If you throw in terrain or a choke, the collosi composition wins easily. The second problem is that forcefields completely dominate zealot-archon. With good forcefields (a given at moderate-to-high level play), zealot-archon doesn't even get a shot off against collosi-stalker. If you open blink against collosi and have been trading units so that the army sizes are small, you can go zealot-archon to deny the robo player's nat before he's got it set up. But you can't push up a ramp, and you lose if you let him get 4+ collosi or 2 collosi, a few sentries, and his nat. | ||
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Khaladas
United States223 Posts
I agree that Archons are underused, and possibly slightly underrated, and I also commend the OP for thinking out of the box. A few comments on the replays, hopefully this will help you flush out the strategy a bit more. Vs gino replay #2 In this replay gino had a lot of non-blink stalkers and a few immortals/sentries. The stalkers proved pretty worthless since he didn't have enough force fields to keep the chargelots at range. Less stalkers and more zeal/sentry would have possibly worked better for him. vs chaosdream Again here, the guy had a lot of non-blink stalkers and sentries. Once you got chargelots he didn't have enough energy left in the sentries to make the stalkers do their job. The archons hardly even played a role as you had pretty much wiped the floor with your chargelots by the time the first one popped out. Again, i'd like to see your opponent with more of a zealot/sentry/immortal mix, chargelots + anything would have won you that battle. Vs Pogoman He went for 3 gate expand into colossus. This is a relatively weak play against any sort of aggresssion, especially on a short run distance map. You did the smart thing by pushing him relatively early with a very strong composition of chargelot/sentry. He would have needed to hold you off for a couple more minutes to fully realize the power of what he was trying to do. I think he might have even been better off getting some early immortals rather than teching AND trying to get an expansion up at roughly the same time. Some conclusions from what i'm seeing so far: In these 3 replays it feels like won largely because you had chargelots and you simply outplayed your opponents. The archons definitely played their role, but one could easily argue had you DT rushed you would have probably won all 3 games since none of your opponents had an obs out, and I would imagine you could have skipped archons all together and just gotten more chargelots/sentries and done just as well. This feels somewhat like a DT rush in the build order, except with DTs you are relying a bit on trickery, whereas with this it's much more straightforward, so I really like that aspect of this build. Like DT rushing, you don't have DT protection, but I think if you are willing to roll the dice on that aspect you are going to be looking pretty good good vs a lot of PvP builds since you are getting early charge along with your Archons. | ||
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Skee
Canada702 Posts
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Gemini_19
United States1238 Posts
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thnikkaman
19 Posts
But what i do is I open with dts. I know that most people in plat are bad and dont get their obs out soon enough but the odd player does and when that happens i just pull back and expand. if they have cannons i am pretty much free to expand without hassle cause he cant push with my dts on the field. if he gets obs then i can just morph my dts to archons and get ready for a big timing push with around 4 or so stalkers, a ton of speed zealots and some archons mixed in. it seems very effective, i just dont know if the players at my level are just bad or my strat is really working. but thanks to the poster for the strat that I worked off of so i can move up in the rankings! | ||
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megagoten
318 Posts
i'll try anything to break the current pvp | ||
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Kurayuki
Korea (South)36 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:41 Kwaa wrote: Rofl, wtf. I've been going for fast archons every game for a few days in pvp now, and it's been incredibly succesful, was thinking about posting some replays here. Did I prehaps smash your face on the EU server? Let me see. 1. Stats? Ratings? Care to show that you're doing so great with that fast archon against high tier players? Since I have to laugh at the hilarity of how hostile this post is, please dont brag about success against people who cant even effectively ramp block or utilize forcefield to render your mostly zealot and archon composed army useless. Funny if you were on NA account I'd say feel free to call me up any time for a match. Though personally I dislike use of collosus in PvP match up and rarely ever go fast collosus build off of one base, I'd be more than obliged to have a match. I'm only a 2.1k diamond though I keep it around 2.1k despite the fact that I experiment heavily on ladder since custom game experiment is ineffective due to the fact most custom game opponents are not at competitive level. | ||
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ItsYoungLee
Korea (South)227 Posts
Zealot Archon owns any colossus build, especially if you start out with a dark shrine and force the other protoss to be defensive with their observers and are caught off guard. If they either (1) Don't know you're going archons and are sitting waiting for the DTs to come to their base or (2) Don't know you're expanding and you mass zealots archons, it's pretty much GG - this unit comp owns colossus so hard. Also, if the colossus tries to abuse the terrain, then it's so easy to just research blink and get a few blink stalkers to force the colossus to run around. | ||
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Lucius2
Germany548 Posts
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