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On November 21 2010 19:08 413X wrote:
What I like playing with it in my mind is the feedback on HTs.. If you do a push, go to his choke, bring up a zealot, feedback his sentry if you can reach, back away and transform him, then go up. Could this work? what do you guys think?
It might work, but I doubt it because first you would need vision up his ramp. I think it would work if you sent a zealot, made if do one FF, then used your high temps to FB the rest of his sentries, the rushed in with zealots after the first FF is gone. But he could always just warp in more sentries.
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Post up the unit test results please.
Like actual armies on both sides, resources used and the end result.
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On November 21 2010 19:14 MayorITC wrote:
Post up the unit test results please.
Like actual armies on both sides, resources used and the end result.
Its not possible, It all depends of FF usage and collossus control, you'll roll them if they do neither, you'll get reamed if they do. Its also important to target the zealots with the collossi.
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i like archons PvP but usually after my failed dt cheese haha. forcefield is the bane of your existence and your lack of stalkers makes it hard to do any real damage to the protoss until your doom push. but if you get a nice flank its hard to ff chargelots because you gotta throw down preemptive ffs they're so damn fast
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wouldn't this strategy be a lot better with voidray instead of archon?
or mix a few phoenix in so you can lift the sentry to prevent forcefield.
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On November 21 2010 19:21 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 19:14 MayorITC wrote:
Post up the unit test results please.
Like actual armies on both sides, resources used and the end result. Its not possible,
How is it not possible? He already ran some tests so I would like to see the data he got for his experiment.
It all depends of FF usage and collossus control, you'll roll them if they do neither, you'll get reamed if they do.
So I'm guessing you ran some tests as well to make this conclusion? If so, please present your numbers.
I don't care about the varying circumstances that can lead to different outcomes. I just want some numerical results instead of people constantly speculating and pulling random shit out of their ass. If there's other variables such as positioning, forcefield placements, etc., then additional tests can be conducted. But for now, I would like to see the OP's numbers.
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On November 21 2010 19:38 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 19:21 sob3k wrote:On November 21 2010 19:14 MayorITC wrote:
Post up the unit test results please.
Like actual armies on both sides, resources used and the end result. Its not possible, How is it not possible? He already ran some tests so I would like to see the data he got for his experiment. Show nested quote +It all depends of FF usage and collossus control, you'll roll them if they do neither, you'll get reamed if they do. So I'm guessing you ran some tests as well to make this conclusion? If so, please present your numbers. I don't care about the varying circumstances that can lead to different outcomes. I just want some numerical results instead of people constantly speculating and pulling random shit out of their ass. If there's other variables such as positioning, forcefield placements, etc., then additional tests can be conducted. But for now, I would like to see the OP's numbers.
Wow it's a real-time strategy game it's not turn-based, this is why the game isn't won by super computers hooked up to each other testing every possible build...
Just go test the numbers yourself there are dozens of unit testers just go do it...
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I think even in Colossus vs Colossus, zealots are what really wins, not the colossus, so I like any build that focuses on getting lots of zealots....
My main concern is how early this build lets you expand. 1 gate FE isn't viable against Protoss... I've found I need 3.5 gates to be safe while expanding, and 3gate + fast tech to HT doesn't allow for nexus or probe production.
I think it's an interesting idea for after I get my first 4 colossus out tho, I could just stay on 2 robos and get a bunch of gateways + archons... will have to give it a shot. I've been looking for something better than stalkers against VRs anyway.
I tried attacking a colossus ball with 20 HT + zealot/immortal the other day, despite covering the screen in psi storm it didn't go the way I hoped. Maybe if that had been 9 archons + 2 HT things would have went different.
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I've been messing with charge and expansions alot in PvP. I almost never get 4 gates off one base tbh, I just hate playing games like that..
But archons.. I have not thought about it too much, but it's quite interesting, I think the replays are somewhat lackluster - if you update the OP with better replays that'd be awesome. I'll give it some thought to implement Archons though, it is interesting 
Cheers!
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i dont know about going pure zealot arcon.. but late game PvP i usually try to mix in a few arcons so my meat shields rip through their meat shields alot faster..
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you can micro colossi all day vs zealot archon
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On November 21 2010 20:30 Arcanefrost wrote:
you can micro colossi all day vs zealot archon
you can make posts all day which dont contribute to the conversation
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Bleh archon build crumbles against collosus build. Once again FF is critical. only time this build is viable is in the early stage where one initial collosus comes out with no range upgrade. However, ramp block simply turns your army away and your army takes pretty bad casualty. As collosi number increase, archons prove themselves to be simply waste of investment.
More viable strategy against robo build is phoenix build. Phoenixes are awesome units if you can get past the heavy need of micro and how fragile they are. Key is in getting their numbers up by not losing them. Once the number gets high, they just prove how useful they really are, especially since robo build won't allow for number of stalkers your opponent would want due to gas shortage if they go collosus.
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Oh and just like blink stalker build, key is to keep your opponent's collosus number low
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Rofl, wtf. I've been going for fast archons every game for a few days in pvp now, and it's been incredibly succesful, was thinking about posting some replays here.
Did I prehaps smash your face on the EU server?
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On November 21 2010 20:41 Kwaa wrote:
Rofl, wtf. I've been going for fast archons every game for a few days in pvp now, and it's been incredibly succesful, was thinking about posting some replays here.
Did I prehaps smash your face on the EU server?
No, I've never been on the EU server. But I'm glad another person is saying how awesome this build is. I thought of it myself, but I no doubt believe others have as well.
Please post your replays.
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Sounds really interesting, don't let all the posters get you down and make you just abandon this strat. Sure it has holes in it but they can be patched up and a new way to play can be born.
Also Replay 4 is a broken link.
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I too did some testing a bit ago to come up with original and effective PvP unit compositions. I found that zealot/archon was a good counter to about a 1-2 colossus army. But once theres 2+ colossus plus more gateway units, zealot/archon starts to lose effectiveness. Also, with micro and forcefields its hard to use the archons effectively since they have short range, and move slow.
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On November 21 2010 19:07 Lobber wrote:
G: Rather than spending 300 minerals and 300 gas on tech structures then 100 minerals 300 gas on 1 archon, then moving out you could move out with the same army except 6 sentries and a couple extra zealots, FF him in and keep stalkers from kiting also you can then GS to reduce stalker dmg 20%...
H: Zealots are really slow, they can just kite you with stalkers/colossus forever, if you get charge to help that it's another 200minerals and 200 gas spent on tech making your army way to small to be useful...
Honestly I don't understand why the archon really helps... It's a worse meatshield than 2 zealots, doesn't have enough range to be really useful, the only thing it really has is that it could kill the opponents zealots faster. Seems the only way this works if it the opponent completely ignores scouting and doesn't add sentries to his standard build...
OP please respond to this post.
Seems to me like the 1 archon push is quite useless. So what is an actually good timing to attack with this build, assuming that you eventually have to transition to collossus anyway?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Yeah Socke was playing around with this with moderate success. Nothing extraordinary but might be more workable off of a minigun style fast expand. idk.
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EPT
