EPTPvP, Collosus's Demise. New and Original Strategy. - Page 10
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spacemonkeyy
Australia477 Posts
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TheKRoc
United States74 Posts
First, know that Charge is 75% of what makes this build good. You guys don't seem to understand how fucking good it is in PvP. If you haven't tried it, go and do it right now. Here is how every fight goes vs. Colossus: You have 4 Archons and 20 Zealots. He has 3 Colossus, 14 Zealots, and some stalkers (I think thats around even, but it doesn't really matter) Chargelots basically always get more surface area on other Zealots straight up, (I.E. if I have 14 Chargelots and you have 14 Zealots, my Zealots will charge into a curve around yours) but to further skew the fight in your favor further you're going to have more zealots. This creates a little concave, and after a second or two Archons get to the bag guy's Zealots and rip the shit out of them (they do this anyways, but your Chargelots bundle A-moved Zealots nicely for splash). You will lose the vast majority of your Zealots here, but come away with maybe 5 or 6. Those plus three remaining Archons go up and kill the Colossus. End of story. And forcefields don't really work, by the way. | ||
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Paekes
Germany28 Posts
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On May 11 2011 20:15 bonerificus wrote: A lot of people in here misunderstand where the strength of this composition lies. First, know that Charge is 75% of what makes this build good. You guys don't seem to understand how fucking good it is in PvP. If you haven't tried it, go and do it right now. Here is how every fight goes vs. Colossus: You have 4 Archons and 20 Zealots. He has 3 Colossus, 14 Zealots, and some stalkers (I think thats around even, but it doesn't really matter) Chargelots basically always get more surface area on other Zealots straight up, (I.E. if I have 14 Chargelots and you have 14 Zealots, my Zealots will charge into a curve around yours) but to further skew the fight in your favor further you're going to have more zealots. This creates a little concave, and after a second or two Archons get to the bag guy's Zealots and rip the shit out of them (they do this anyways, but your Chargelots bundle A-moved Zealots nicely for splash). You will lose the vast majority of your Zealots here, but come away with maybe 5 or 6. Those plus three remaining Archons go up and kill the Zealots. End of story. And forcefields don't really work, by the way. How does the collosus play a part in this? I assume you mean collosi in the end there or? | ||
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Murloc
United States4 Posts
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
On May 11 2011 20:15 bonerificus wrote: A lot of people in here misunderstand where the strength of this composition lies. First, know that Charge is 75% of what makes this build good. You guys don't seem to understand how fucking good it is in PvP. If you haven't tried it, go and do it right now. Here is how every fight goes vs. Colossus: You have 4 Archons and 20 Zealots. He has 3 Colossus, 14 Zealots, and some stalkers (I think thats around even, but it doesn't really matter) Chargelots basically always get more surface area on other Zealots straight up, (I.E. if I have 14 Chargelots and you have 14 Zealots, my Zealots will charge into a curve around yours) but to further skew the fight in your favor further you're going to have more zealots. This creates a little concave, and after a second or two Archons get to the bag guy's Zealots and rip the shit out of them (they do this anyways, but your Chargelots bundle A-moved Zealots nicely for splash). You will lose the vast majority of your Zealots here, but come away with maybe 5 or 6. Those plus three remaining Archons go up and kill the Zealots. End of story. And forcefields don't really work, by the way. Yes, because when your zealots are forcefielded so they can't hit stalkers and collosi they are very effective. Forcefields do work, and they rip apart chargelots when supported by collosi and stalkers. | ||
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Ineffability~
84 Posts
 User was warned for this post | ||
azn_dude1
162 Posts
On May 11 2011 20:59 Pwnographics wrote: Yes, because when your zealots are forcefielded so they can't hit stalkers and collosi they are very effective. Forcefields do work, and they rip apart chargelots when supported by collosi and stalkers. Archons stomp force fields. This build has been made a lot stronger by the new patch. | ||
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Cibron
Sweden253 Posts
On May 11 2011 20:59 Ineffability~ wrote: Why don't they nerf the one imba unit to make another unit even more imba. Storm/zealot with archons after storms will rip PvT apart now Haha what? Dude massive archons dont affect **** in PvT. I'd worry more about 2gate pressure... | ||
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Barty
France64 Posts
BTW it could be interesting to compare the upgrades-scaling of archons and zealots vs colos. and stalkers ! | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On May 11 2011 21:13 Barty wrote: Shouldn't an archon be in the front line instead of zealots? I mean it could be used to 1) crush forcefields 2) tank colossus&stalkers fire for a while since it's so big and splash doesnt affect like 3 zealots at a time when archons are being focused. Sure they cost a lot of gas but it's your only way to spend it. BTW it could be interesting to compare the upgrades-scaling of archons and zealots vs colos. and stalkers ! In this build (chargelot/archon), a good idea is to keep only 1-2 archons in front to break forcefields and the rest in the back. This is because having too many archons in the front would prevent your zealots from attack, and also remember that archons now have 3 range, which helps them hit behind the zealots. Zealot Scale > Stalker Scale Stalkers only get like +1 Zealots get +2 | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Argus92
Netherlands93 Posts
Funny how at the start I didn't get the 1 Archon only, but of course it's Massive now, didn't realize it before. haha | ||
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Sakarabu
United Kingdom132 Posts
On May 12 2011 00:16 Argus92 wrote: Interesting build, you need to have good position though, zealots shouldnt be clumped up, like on a small ramp, you have Melee units with this build. Also, if they take out the Archon first, they can force field you all they want, which against Zealots, is quite pwn. Funny how at the start I didn't get the 1 Archon only, but of course it's Massive now, didn't realize it before. haha You are underestimating the power of the archon and how many hits it can take. At the timing this attack hits your opponent is either expanding or teching to collosi, he won't HAVE collosi yet. He will have afew gateway units at most. Saw kiwikaki doing this vs whitera yesterday on his stream, It did stomp whitera however I will add that it was Whiteras first game ever on the new patch so i'm not gonna say it's OMFGAMAZING. However it did seem very strong, definitely crushes a blink stalker build (stalkers just don't have the dps to kill mass speedlots effectively without forcefields), crushes a 4 gate (you need to get afew fast sentries though) and also crushes a fast tech to collosi and those are the majority of popular strats used. All in all, we'll have to wait and see the true potential of this as people learn how to counter it etc but it's a fun build nonetheless. | ||
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chikhan
Malaysia35 Posts
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
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I)etox
1240 Posts
On May 11 2011 23:58 Lobber wrote: Zealot archon vs zealot colossus, colossus fucking rape. Actually, since archons cost the same minerals as a zealot does (100) while collosus cost 3x that amount (300), zealot/archon will have more zealots than zealot/collosus. Add to the fact that zealot/archon will have chargelots so they can get a better surround/not be kited by collosus and that archons do bonus damage vs. zealots, zealot/archons is looking to be a very viable build vs. zealot/collosus right now. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On May 13 2011 05:11 I)etox wrote: Actually, since archons cost the same minerals as a zealot does (100) while collosus cost 3x that amount (300), zealot/archon will have more zealots than zealot/collosus. Add to the fact that zealot/archon will have chargelots so they can get a better surround/not be kited by collosus and that archons do bonus damage vs. zealots, zealot/archons is looking to be a very viable build vs. zealot/collosus right now. I was doing some theorycrafting in my head and I'm thinking that stalker(with blink) collosus would win this battle if microed correctly. The collosus stay near a cliff and then you blink away with stalkers after shooting a round essentially kiting the zealot/archon ball. Engaging in an open area would be like automatic win for the zealot archon ball. I think this build makes pvp have an interesting dynamic in the mid game. and We could actually see long drawn out pvp games. This could also cause pvp to always start off with a gas steal. Looking forward to the future of pvp  | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
On May 11 2011 23:58 Lobber wrote: Zealot archon vs zealot colossus, colossus fucking rape. User was warned for this post As per request by the mod pm and warning here's a recent replay where I ended up with gateway colossus vs gateway archon and traded ridiculously well. Granted the game was not great for me and I did lose overall, he was a gm, much higher than me, I almost managed to take it despite being so far behind due to the near hard-counter of colossus vs archon. Also granted it's not pure zealot archon vs zealot colossus but stalker zealot for both... replay | ||
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r3tsa
Poland94 Posts
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