|
On May 13 2011 07:06 Lobber wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 23:58 Lobber wrote:
Zealot archon vs zealot colossus, colossus fucking rape.
User was warned for this post As per request by the mod pm and warning here's a recent replay where I ended up with gateway colossus vs gateway archon and traded ridiculously well. Granted the game was not great for me and I did lose overall, he was a gm, much higher than me, I almost managed to take it despite being so far behind due to the near hard-counter of colossus vs archon. Also granted it's not pure zealot archon vs zealot colossus but stalker zealot for both... replay
That map is terribly bad for zealot archon play becaus eof the many many small choke points. On maps with a lot more wide open space such a battle would have been very different. Also the guys archons are constantly stuck doing nothing and he loses a few carelessly becaus ehe is unsure how to engage in the small chokes. I think the way you played it might be viable on smaller maps or maps with alot of chokes.
|
On May 13 2011 20:01 lyrlian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 07:06 Lobber wrote:On May 11 2011 23:58 Lobber wrote:
Zealot archon vs zealot colossus, colossus fucking rape.
User was warned for this post As per request by the mod pm and warning here's a recent replay where I ended up with gateway colossus vs gateway archon and traded ridiculously well. Granted the game was not great for me and I did lose overall, he was a gm, much higher than me, I almost managed to take it despite being so far behind due to the near hard-counter of colossus vs archon. Also granted it's not pure zealot archon vs zealot colossus but stalker zealot for both... replay That map is terribly bad for zealot archon play becaus eof the many many small choke points. On maps with a lot more wide open space such a battle would have been very different. Also the guys archons are constantly stuck doing nothing and he loses a few carelessly becaus ehe is unsure how to engage in the small chokes. I think the way you played it might be viable on smaller maps or maps with alot of chokes.
Agreed, this was more a positional battle than anything to do with 'units countering' each other.
I almost feel that the archon composition would have done a lot better if he'd have split the army and attacked the collosi-composition from the front and back simultaneously. Instead he ran back and forth through a choke defended by 6 collosi.
I've also had some success with archons in PvP. What needs to be emphasized is that you can get them out faster than collosi, (which feels counter intuitive). I kind of suspect someone might develop a really well thought out/strong, fast archon timing in PvP at some point.
edit: curious to see how archon/vr/gw plays vs collosi/vr/gw
|
been trying this kind of strategy for a bit where you open with a reasonably fast charge+templar archives and all i can say is when it works you feel like a serious baller-assed motherfucker
like sentries do NOTHING and if you target fire groups of zealots with the archon your army just owns face early on
you also have dt tech that is reasonably easy to obtain, which is really deadly lategame pvp
p.s. yeah you need to get good flanks off with zealots to win a lot of fights but id rather play a sick baller strategy that requires me to actually be good at managing my army than some dumb boring strategy that only requires me to go 1AG. besides you dont feel like a baller when you go colossi. you definitely feel like a baller when you go for speedlot+archon pvp. hell you dont just feel like a baller you ARE one son
if this turns out to be a legitimate strategy in pvp where its all like position battles and warp prism harass with storm then pvp is suddenly going to be my absolute favorite matchup. i really love zealots, archons, and templar/storm. so fun to play with
p.p.s. oh yeah its a little lackluster vs blink stalker but not unusable imo because zealots with legspeed are quite good regardless of blink (not to mention its very good at holding a ramp from offensive blinks)
|
Very good build... out of all the times i faced this i lost haha since FF don't work due to archon massive unit then chargelots>stalkers when theres more, then archons>enemy zealots.
|
|
|
On July 03 2011 05:17 tuestresfat wrote:
watched the first two replays, you would've died to 4gate that isn't shit. this build spends too many resources teching somewhat early on and has no sentries to hold the ramp. blink stalkers or aggressive 4gate would kill you.
Since you clearly don't know how to scout for k4g, this must be a low level replay, and that would kill you too. But yea that's a lil off topic now.
What replays are you watching exactly? I hope it's not the ones from late 2010.
|
I just want to hop in and tell everyone to not consider this an all-round, all-win build, as those do not exist for crying out loud, and analyze everything before jumping to conclusions. Also, for the troll's sake, l2scout.
On another note, agression is needed in here as once colossi' number grows to the certain point of 6+, archons' efficiency is mitigated by almighty thermal lance. Almost got stomped by someone playing this way, but he attacked a bit too late and my colossi managed to clean stuff up.
People underestimate the ballness of archons' splash damage, it's just so good.
|
On July 03 2011 05:28 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 05:17 tuestresfat wrote:
watched the first two replays, you would've died to 4gate that isn't shit. this build spends too many resources teching somewhat early on and has no sentries to hold the ramp. blink stalkers or aggressive 4gate would kill you.
Since you clearly don't know how to scout for k4g, this must be a low level replay, and that would kill you too. But yea that's a lil off topic now. What replays are you watching exactly? I hope it's not the ones from late 2010.
I see I completely missed the point. Thanks for pointing that out.
|
Is there a reason you get Templar Archives over Dark Shrine? The only bad side is the timing window where you do not have an Archon is a bit later, as the cheaper price of Archons using DTs will pay off for the extra gas onto the Shrine. Also, if they happen to go the same build you could instantly win or force a Forge and cannon to be built.
|
What's nice is archons are massive so your zealots being FF'd isn't much of a problem with some micro. Also the low supply density of this army is nice, and the ability to refresh your army instantly with many gateways is also a plus. I've done some units tests as well, as a plus not microing the archon/zealot mix but microing the opposite side (zealot-stalker-colossus), and it's hard to beat the zealot/archon mix with an equal supply "traditional" army.
Surprisingly it also does nicely against other races. If they react with ghosts/infestors, you can simply feedback and storm if left with remaining energy. Flanking with zealots the same way as with zerglings gives a very nice edge in a fight. Definately nice for people who love to use gateway units.
|
Just a side note: I know the op is somewhat old but it says something about Archons being lifted by the phoenixes, and that wont happen anymore since they're massive now. This really works? Because if it does then PvP sounds a LOT better then i imaginated...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
