EPTAlso I don't really think archons add to much to this build... I mean the zealots do much more damage and have much more HP, the only real thing archons bring is a way to spend your gas...
PvP, Collosus's Demise. New and Original Strategy. - Page 3
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
Also I don't really think archons add to much to this build... I mean the zealots do much more damage and have much more HP, the only real thing archons bring is a way to spend your gas... | ||
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Robellicose
England245 Posts
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bibbaly
98 Posts
Might need a bit of refinement but it is a really solid build that could be added to the list of great protoss builds. | ||
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Kwaa
Sweden91 Posts
My PvP midgame currently looks as such: Archons, Immortals, Zealots (speed often) and some Stalkers/Sentries. And if they forcefield well, you are forced to run away. You can do this over and over, while losing some Zealots, but nothing to major. When engaging, do it as if it were 3 range roaches. Move in, attack, move in, attack. Zealots and Archons up close > Stalkers/Colossi/Immortals. | ||
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MuMeise
Germany81 Posts
basically i build carriers instead of colossi and the same composition of stalkers and lots. monstly lots. later on with speed. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169459¤tpage=2 i attack with a timing push, when catapult and +1 air is ready. with that a carrier has 12 damage per interceptor. I won the last 5 matchups against P with this build, because everyone is building colossi at the moment ant against that.. carriers are enormous. Basically you have to stay save the same way you do with a fast colossi build. You are voulnerable against early pushes etc etc | ||
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Rotcod
United Kingdom138 Posts
I've been doing a similar build vs every race (with slight alterations ofc) In PvP Its all about being agressive, I have 3 different timmings attack 1)when warpgate finishes(I do a slighlty more econ korean 4 warpgate leaving guys in gas) 2)then when Z legs is up (its not always possible to break the ramp at this point but gives you nice map control EXPAND) 3) when archons are up. I'm 1700 diamond and I have limited success with it although it hasnt been refined to the extend 2/3 gate collossus has been so no suprise? makes a nice change  Edit: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/107668-1v1-protoss-blistering-sands replay of me failing to punish an early expand because of FF | ||
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NerdErk
United States1 Post
1(Bottom Position on Steppes of War). This seems like a good push that he doesn't do a good job of defending. I don't think your Archons did too much damage early in the fight because of force fields, so it's hard to credit this concept with the victory. 2)(Xel'Naga Caverns) He pushes you with almost exclusively stalkers and immortals. Your zealots were the big tipping point, not the archons. If each of those archons were 2 stalkers instead, I think you would have done just as well. 3) His early push fails, but you only have 1 archon at the time, so I'm not sure if you can attribute that to your build. You probably could have held it just as well with a standard army for that timing. After that he's contained on one base and you have an over 30 food advantage, and you can win by simply having more stuff. Ultimately, I'd say this is an interesting build, but I'd like to see a lot more test cases go into the mid-late game. Remember that you could get 2 stalkers or sentries for less than the cost of an archon (not even accounting for the tech building costs), and I think in all of the games you posted you would have won with either choice. In these games you simply killed or crippled them before colossi could become an issue, but that's not always going to work. Hope that helps. I'd love to see another viable PvP build that doesn't rely on colossi. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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gr8ape
Canada302 Posts
On November 22 2010 00:35 NerdErk wrote: Hope that helps. I'd love to see another viable PvP build that doesn't rely on colossi. open with 4 gate, or forge fe, get an economy/defense going, and then double stargate chronoboosted +1 speedrays. That shit wrecks colossi and non blink stalkers. And blink stalkers are hard, but your ground and air army combined is alot more damaging than a bunch of blink stalkers Void rays arent exactly what they used to be (in which case this build would completely overpower everything in pvp, everything), but having a fleet of +1 speed rays is not good news for your opponent.... I dont remember who said this, but i remember reading "void rays are the future of midgame pvp" and im starting to believe that | ||
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dobrzeee
Poland71 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On November 22 2010 01:41 gr8ape wrote: open with 4 gate, or forge fe, get an economy/defense going, and then double stargate chronoboosted +1 speedrays. That shit wrecks colossi and non blink stalkers. And blink stalkers are hard, but your ground and air army combined is alot more damaging than a bunch of blink stalkers Void rays arent exactly what they used to be (in which case this build would completely overpower everything in pvp, everything), but having a fleet of +1 speed rays is not good news for your opponent.... I dont remember who said this, but i remember reading "void rays are the future of midgame pvp" and im starting to believe that 4gate loses too robo build, forge fe loses to all robo builds and blink stalkers. + If you see the forge you can just 1gate fe and be ahead. Speedrays in pvp are beasts, but you can never ever get them in the critical mass you need, blink stalkers will just own you before you get there, the kiwikaki build transitionss to colossi off 2bases because of that. | ||
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Arch00
United States233 Posts
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gr8ape
Canada302 Posts
On November 22 2010 02:27 Arcanefrost wrote: 4gate loses too robo build, forge fe loses to all robo builds and blink stalkers. + If you see the forge you can just 1gate fe and be ahead. Speedrays in pvp are beasts, but you can never ever get them in the critical mass you need, blink stalkers will just own you before you get there, the kiwikaki build transitionss to colossi off 2bases because of that. 4 gate doesnt STRAIGHT up lose to robo build....sure it CAN lose but i dont think its a one sided match I think that with the right timing (getting void rays with enough gateway units, not too many, not too few) is what would make this viable, because I agree that rushing vr's once you are on 2 bases will leave you open, and waiting for 2 base saturation will not give you enough firepower... | ||
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sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
It may be effective without micro, but at even mid-range diamond this will be shutdown by remotely competent forcefields and even the most timid of colossus kiting. | ||
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Raphy
France8 Posts
What I think is key about this build is to push just when the opponents is starting to have colossi (so meanwhile you have a few archons and a bunch of lots) - if he is on 1base it is a great timing - getting colossi is long and hard and expensive, he won't be having that many core units and archons really are great against colossi. Colossi just do so little damage against them, like against all heavy troops actually... Problem is they can run away, sure, but with that build you can easily overwhelm him (cause building colossi is so freakin expensive !). You can some stalkers to snipe some colossi out (against scattered units, colossi lose all it's power). That's what I did... It worked out very well. Thanks for the build OP, I'll try to contribute to the post by testing it more. | ||
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GiygaS
Canada1043 Posts
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Proto_Protoss
United States495 Posts
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Kryptonite
United States155 Posts
On November 22 2010 02:42 sjschmidt93 wrote: If archons were massive (like they should be) this composition would kick ass. omg I wish. Imagine PvT as well with Archons being massive. | ||
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
On November 21 2010 18:55 happyness wrote: Stopped reading there User was temp banned for this post. Thank you mods. Thank you so very much. This guys one liners were getting real bad. I think Archons are far more viable than the people in this thread are giving credit to the OP for. On the other hand the replays show the build being performed against sub-par players (clearly not nearly as good as the OP), and so I really can't take those as proof of the build working. However I have to suspect that the Protoss late game will shift away from Colossus eventually. | ||
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