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Geiko
France1952 Posts
On November 22 2010 03:24 dokphenom3 wrote: Gas steal and proxy cannons beats this Double gas steal on protoss is SUCH a pain. We've found the counter to that, just have zerg harvest gas with 3 workers instead of 2. Then the zerg leaves and protoss finishes the game 1 Vs 2. (Yes it's lame, but when you are cheesing, you might as well do it right !) | ||
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jmack
Canada285 Posts
This is was I do with my teammate in PPvXX and our win ratio is pretty impressive, i think close to 80%. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
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Geiko
France1952 Posts
On November 22 2010 03:42 summerloud wrote: its not unbeatable, ive lost with it, ive won against it. its a strong opening for sure, but im not even convinced that halting gas and going 5 gate is better than just doing k18g with gas If ever you win against this, or lose while doing it again, could you send me the replays ? | ||
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cubert
Russian Federation94 Posts
Im drooling just looking at your profile Whats you're favorite 2v2 race if your ally is Zerg? We have switched from PZ to TZ after few loses against cheese before the patch nerfed terran rush. Now PZ and TZ nearly balanced, but we don't want back. TZ is more safe vs rushes. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
I don't know if they've changed their strat since the last few patches, but before 1.1, they did zerg gas-first speedling/baneling, and protoss stalkers. On bigger maps, or when the game goes to mid-game, zerg switches to muta/ling, protoss techs to HT. Pre-1.1 replay pack here There's more replays out there if you search for them. Speaking of banelings, I would think they destroy the OP's build. | ||
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Satire
Canada295 Posts
On November 21 2010 23:29 Chocobo wrote: I love seeing stuff like this, attempts to make nearly-gamebreaking combinations of units in a 2v2. I love the overlord/WG concept as well... things that wouldn't occur to just anyone. Thanks for posting this instead of keeping it a secret like many players would. I'm curious how much more gamebreaking things could get with a 3v3 combo... though I wonder if overpowered rushes actually become less worthwhile, since you're taking out only 1/3 of the opponents and 2/3 are free to counterattack you. I can't imagine what Aristeo/Cubert are doing. I really don't think it's simply strong overall play, I don't think a 92.3% winrate happens without one or more extremely well-rehearsed gameplans. Maybe Nestea and Nada could pull it off, going heavy defense and a powerful macro game, but I doubt it. That team is 397-33. Think about it. That's insane. Game-breaking? I'm sorry but stuff like this is pretty much all-in and relies on a timing push. I don't really think it's even all that clever of cheese to be honest, although it's pretty solid. The best cheese I've seen this week was a Terran player in 3s who built a couple of bunkers at my Terran buddies ramp right off the start, and then canceled them as his 2 zerg allies came in with about 14 lings. Granted they still lost because they're terrible at everything but cheesing, but an interesting little strategy none-the-less. These types of cheeses have been happening a lot more frequently these days. Every 2s, 3s, and 4s I play it seems that people simply rely on cheese to get by. It used to be mostly 4 warp gates, 3 rax, stim timing pushes, etc. I liked those. Those made sense to me because there was a follow-up if things didn't go well. Now, it's pretty much common that I see people 6 pool, or 5 rax marine rush, or zealot or stalker rush. In 2/5 of our games last night in 3s we faced against 2 zerg 1 terran teams who did double ling rush with marines, into muta. The Terran went pure marines and fed gas to the Zerg so he could build a ton of mutalisks. By the 15 minute mark the Terran still didn't have Stim for his marines and was on 1 base still. (No Stim in BOTH games) In fact of the 3, only one actually expoed and he did it to the gold base on OUR side of the map, which was completely exposed... We still barely scraped by with a win. These are people in high diamond league? Give me a break. This is not to say that I am not above cheesing or doing an all-in. We all do it once in awhile. I especially am more likely to do it if I know the person is better than me, and to even the advantage I need to do some economic damage early to put myself in a position to win. I just dislike plans where it's one strategy, or one 5 minute game plan to only win the game. That's your one trick pony. Winning lots does not make you a better player... Being in diamond doesn't make you a good player... | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On November 22 2010 02:31 Lucius2 wrote: exaclty because of builds like this, there is no point in playing 2v2 imo. every single game is all-in with the lamest unit combos ever. teching = loss, expo = loss. it doesnt even matter which units u get, aslong as u have atleast over 9000 of them. lings (+some blings)+stalker lings(+some blings)+marauder proxy mass marines+zeals 99% of the so called "top" 2v2 players only get carried by their build/unit combo. i gave up playing this long time ago My team plays double random and we cheese maybe once in fifty games. If you want to improve, it's all about stable aggression. You need enough units to merge your armies, unless you're both Terran (-->can defend alone with bunkers until tech comes out). If you merge your armies, you can tech or expand, provided you're not ridiculously greedy about it. We're currently #38 in the world by SC2Ranks. | ||
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KanTeHao
United States6 Posts
 . For quite awhile we have been doing a 7RR build with 2 barracks' (with reactors) marines. This strategy worked quite well until we hit the 1700 diamond in 2's. We were getting 11-0 streaks, then it started to fail around 1700 diamond, and it would often times push into the late game. I think that this would probably be better, because it is stronger than our current build in the late game. Thanks for the great post! | ||
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cannavaro
Italy86 Posts
Lost against: TT: They both rushed 2 rax marine with a few scvs, we were able to hold off their push, but they got one of the overlords, supply block + only 1 base warpin sucks, since it defeats the purpose of switching pressure. TT: Both went marines only, it seemed not possible to get enough banelings fast enough after pulling off from gas. ZZ: Both went the same mass speedling build, but one didn't pull off gas and got banelings, we lost every ling when they first pushed, had no chance to get the pylons up, too much mapcontrol with 2 zergs with mass speedlings, second push with banelings was devastating. ZZ: same as above. But it's so worth playing it, the rage you get after the games, mmmmmh sugar! edit: also, there are more than 3 maps where this strat sucks somewhat more, so you can just vote out the 3 most annoying ones (we decided on all with shared bases except twilight fortress, since it's choke is so large, and only double T will be able to wall off in time, which they could do on any map anyways) | ||
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Geiko
France1952 Posts
On November 22 2010 06:39 cannavaro wrote: tried it out in 30 games after reading this, 1600 diamond europe, went 26-4. Lost against: TT: They both rushed 2 rax marine with a few scvs, we were able to hold off their push, but they got one of the overlords, supply block + only 1 base warpin sucks, since it defeats the purpose of switching pressure. TT: Both went marines only, it seemed not possible to get enough banelings fast enough after pulling off from gas. ZZ: Both went the same mass speedling build, but one didn't pull off gas and got banelings, we lost every ling when they first pushed, had no chance to get the pylons up, too much mapcontrol with 2 zergs with mass speedlings, second push with banelings was devastating. ZZ: same as above. But it's so worth playing it, the rage you get after the games, mmmmmh sugar! edit: also, there are more than 3 maps where this strat sucks somewhat more, so you can just vote out the 3 most annoying ones (we decided on all with shared bases except twilight fortress, since it's choke is so large, and only double T will be able to wall off in time, which they could do on any map anyways) Yep TT is seriously a concern. However, against double Zerg going for mass speedling build (10 pool) you should definately switch protoss build and go double 10/12 gate. | ||
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Dreaming11
United Kingdom105 Posts
It does seem a little daft, but sc2 isn't really optimised for 2v2 / 3v3 / 4v4 imo. Everything is balanced for 1v1 and so the clever synergies like this are going to be at times a bit crazy-strong but the only counter is that you can assemble the same synergy and throw it right back at them. | ||
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TheDominator
New Zealand336 Posts
 . There is another PZ build that can get u 20 mutas in under 6 min, AND leaves u with a very strong economy. | ||
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MuffinFTW
United States235 Posts
On November 22 2010 08:32 TheDominator wrote: A very interesting strat. At 5:15, u can crush them with lots of units. Gonna try this out . There is another PZ build that can get u 20 mutas in under 6 min, AND leaves u with a very strong economy. 20 mutas under 6 minutes? Please link bro | ||
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Nevy
Canada169 Posts
lol | ||
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MuazizTremere
Netherlands67 Posts
I'm sure my build can be improved, but there is no way you're gonna get 20 muta's out in 6 minutes... | ||
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pekaji
France2 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/wuUmM.jpg) + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Vphl4.jpg) + Show Spoiler + best strat ever. Works in 3's , with double toss zerg(only fro vision and harass ) my full history page is only about victories ; it takes between 6 and 8 minutes to win. Grinded my ranks , Leagues with this strat. Thx again, appreciate it PEKAJI | ||
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DROPPINBOMBS
United States312 Posts
On November 21 2010 12:15 Geiko wrote: Good luck having roaches AND banelings at 5:15. Also, have fun shooting my zealots while i'm in your mineral line Truss | ||
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CanucksJC
Canada1241 Posts
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Geiko
France1952 Posts
On November 22 2010 10:06 CanucksJC wrote: What if your opponent is double T On separate bases, send 2 zealots in the mineral line and 3 zealots at the wall-in while your zerg ally attacks. The marines/marauders will be shooting at your 3 zealots while the zerglings eat away the wall. Also, your 3 zealots can get indefinately kited but it will take some time. During that time, prevent any wall in repair. The wall should break and once the glings are in, you're good to go. However, a good terran will split his forces, and have enough to defend this probably... Most of the time, people will panick and make bad decisions. The other ennemy will maybe try to go help his buddy, and you can easily pick off his army with splings. Against a TT, this built is counterable, but they have to be really good, or somehow already played against this build and thought about how to react. I'd say, if you're anything below top 300 world ladder, you're good against any combination of races. Also, you won't find many TTs that high up the ladder anyway. People tend to chose different races because of synergies... | ||
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