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On April 17 2011 10:54 CatNzHat wrote:
I've hit this a few times on ladder btw, and this build gets destroyed by properly micro'd mass hellion build, in a PZvTT matchup, double hellion opening into banshees will just plain kill you, no way you can break the front with lings, and your warp-in's won't do shit because zealots die so fast to hellions. This build is extremely abusive, takes absolutely 0 skill to execute, and has a skill cap of a pineapple. Hopefully they nerf the crap out of protoss, gateway pushes are destroying terran too hard atm in 1v1 as is, if 1v1 was balanced then maybe 2v2 would be as well, but since toss is imba in 1v1 it's quite logical that they'd be imba in 2v2, especially with a cheesing partner to protect their precious pylon
Uh... how is protoss imba in 2v2 lol, wtf are you playing.
You sound pretty angry too, can't say I see too many high level terrans losing to just gateway push (pretty sure they adapted to that type of build already) unless they just don't see it coming or whatever.
p.s. I play terran or zerg in 2v2, can't stand playing as protoss in 2v2.
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On April 17 2011 10:54 CatNzHat wrote:
I've hit this a few times on ladder btw, and this build gets destroyed by properly micro'd mass hellion build, in a PZvTT matchup, double hellion opening into banshees will just plain kill you, no way you can break the front with lings, and your warp-in's won't do shit because zealots die so fast to hellions. This build is extremely abusive, takes absolutely 0 skill to execute, and has a skill cap of a pineapple. Hopefully they nerf the crap out of protoss, gateway pushes are destroying terran too hard atm in 1v1 as is, if 1v1 was balanced then maybe 2v2 would be as well, but since toss is imba in 1v1 it's quite logical that they'd be imba in 2v2, especially with a cheesing partner to protect their precious pylon
You are clueless. Go to scranks.com and look at master league for 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. At the top of those ladders protoss is the least common race by a significant margin.
edit: I play protoss in 1v1, but rarely use them in team games because protoss is the weakest in my experience.
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On April 17 2011 12:06 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 10:54 CatNzHat wrote:
I've hit this a few times on ladder btw, and this build gets destroyed by properly micro'd mass hellion build, in a PZvTT matchup, double hellion opening into banshees will just plain kill you, no way you can break the front with lings, and your warp-in's won't do shit because zealots die so fast to hellions. This build is extremely abusive, takes absolutely 0 skill to execute, and has a skill cap of a pineapple. Hopefully they nerf the crap out of protoss, gateway pushes are destroying terran too hard atm in 1v1 as is, if 1v1 was balanced then maybe 2v2 would be as well, but since toss is imba in 1v1 it's quite logical that they'd be imba in 2v2, especially with a cheesing partner to protect their precious pylon You are clueless. Go to scranks.com and look at master league for 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. At the top of those ladders protoss is the least common race by a significant margin. edit: I play protoss in 1v1, but rarely use them in team games because protoss is the weakest in my experience.
Protoss players are generally expected to rush Warp Tech, which makes the Protoss nearly helpless until the first warp.
I think it's wiser to delay Warp for more units (less chrono on warp, Zealot before Core, etc) if you see an aggressive opening that your ally won't be able to protect you from.
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Thanks for this build, took my teammate and I from silver to top diamond in two nights of playing =P
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On April 17 2011 12:06 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 10:54 CatNzHat wrote:
I've hit this a few times on ladder btw, and this build gets destroyed by properly micro'd mass hellion build, in a PZvTT matchup, double hellion opening into banshees will just plain kill you, no way you can break the front with lings, and your warp-in's won't do shit because zealots die so fast to hellions. This build is extremely abusive, takes absolutely 0 skill to execute, and has a skill cap of a pineapple. Hopefully they nerf the crap out of protoss, gateway pushes are destroying terran too hard atm in 1v1 as is, if 1v1 was balanced then maybe 2v2 would be as well, but since toss is imba in 1v1 it's quite logical that they'd be imba in 2v2, especially with a cheesing partner to protect their precious pylon You are clueless. Go to scranks.com and look at master league for 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4. At the top of those ladders protoss is the least common race by a significant margin. edit: I play protoss in 1v1, but rarely use them in team games because protoss is the weakest in my experience.
Protoss is just the weakest race when you play a conventional style. The 2v2 style for protoss is very different from the 1v1 protoss. Although Zerg/Terran 1v1 / 2v2 have many similarities. Look at Azide and SuperNinja. They play double protoss and are currently rank 3 in the world.
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@mastermind you sound like my brother "protoss have the best death ball with collosi but 1 viking with alot of pride and its all over"...sorry it doesnt always work out like that with or without "pride"
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I can't wait to try this build. My teammate and i keep losing to a lot of early agression. Any help with that would be appreciated
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I am Master League 2v2 and we've used this build for quite some time, but you can scout it pretty easily and beat it easily. If you see this early push, you can kill it off and have an instant win
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Me and my teammate are top diamond now, and few days ago we won against this build quite easily, considering that we were quite suprised by this strat. I will check replay after work and post it, if im not mistaken.
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As promised, 5WG + speedling aggresion - failed with our standard play.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-205665.jpg)
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not really a good replay. your opponents warp in zealots pretty late. they dont use 2 pylons to have the opportunity to warp in in both bases etc.
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I'm a Gold Zerg and I grabbed a Protoss friend who just started playing and we easily got into Plat with this build.
How much is it weakened with the warpgate nerf? It seems like it wouldn't be a big enough change for the strategy to have to be modified significantly.
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This strategy is as strong as ever. The 20 sec increase in warp gate research is only effectively about 13 with chronoboost.
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On April 17 2011 10:54 CatNzHat wrote:
I've hit this a few times on ladder btw, and this build gets destroyed by properly micro'd mass hellion build, in a PZvTT matchup, double hellion opening into banshees will just plain kill you, no way you can break the front with lings, and your warp-in's won't do shit because zealots die so fast to hellions. This build is extremely abusive, takes absolutely 0 skill to execute, and has a skill cap of a pineapple. Hopefully they nerf the crap out of protoss, gateway pushes are destroying terran too hard atm in 1v1 as is, if 1v1 was balanced then maybe 2v2 would be as well, but since toss is imba in 1v1 it's quite logical that they'd be imba in 2v2, especially with a cheesing partner to protect their precious pylon
why are you posting a balance whine about 1v1 in a 2v2 thread with no proof? Also i would love to hear how you define protoss as "imba", sure they won 2 of the more recent tournys..... but that does not = balance at all... Also really the only way 4gate works in 1v1, is if they play too greedily... or if you catch them completly off guard, please vent somewhere else.
To the op, i haven't tried this yet in 2v2 (we play protoss terran/zerg) but it sounds like it is a quite effective build and i may have to try it. However, i think it may become boring after a few games. But good post =D
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On May 12 2011 12:01 Goolpsy wrote:
This strategy is as strong as ever. The 20 sec increase in warp gate research is only effectively about 13 with chronoboost.
10 seconds
it's 10 seconds longer. One chrono boost will shave 10 seconds off whatever it chronoboosts (if it lasts the full duration).
I don't know why everyone keeps saying 13 seconds.
If wg is 160 seconds and you chrono it 6 times, then your research time is 100 seconds.
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That's wrong, constant chronoboost reduces the research time by 33,33 %.
Before patch : WG time = 140 sec; with chrono boost = 92,4 sec
After patch : WG time = 160 sec ; with chrono boost = 105,6 sec
That is 13 seconds difference before and after patch.
Like you said, chrono boost shaves of 10 seconds only if it lasts during the whole 20 secs.
If you consider constant chronoboosting (fastest possible time to research something) you have to use the 33,33% rule.
detailed explanation here : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195512
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its easy to hold if u scout it. u can block the pylonspace, and after patch u can easily shoot the pylon
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On May 12 2011 19:57 Geiko wrote:That's wrong, constant chronoboost reduces the research time by 33,33 %. Before patch : WG time = 140 sec; with chrono boost = 92,4 sec After patch : WG time = 160 sec ; with chrono boost = 105,6 sec That is 13 seconds difference before and after patch. Like you said, chrono boost shaves of 10 seconds only if it lasts during the whole 20 secs. If you consider constant chronoboosting (fastest possible time to research something) you have to use the 33,33% rule.detailed explanation here : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195512
Sorry that this is derailing your thread, but you're wrong.
Using that same thread as reference (since I corrected the math on that post)...
In a real game, no one used a 5th chrono boost on WG pre-patch because the benefit too small unless you were doing k4g.
Now, you can use that 5th chrono boost and you gain the full benefit. The 6th chrono, however becomes of very minimal benefit (~3 seconds), and is only even possible to use if you have absolutely perfect chrono boosts. The numbers he posts are in theory if you could do the fastest possible wg chrono, sacrificing as much economy in favor of a few seconds gain on WG.
No build post-patch uses 6 chronos on wg. In theory it's possible, but in practice, your wg is 10 seconds faster because you use 5 full chronos instead of 4.
If you can find a serious build that makes use of a 6th chrono now, I'll stand corrected.
edit: Actually I guess k4g used that 5th chrono, so you have a 93 seconds research time then vs a 110 second time in 1.3 or 107 second if you use the 6th chrono.
However, if you compare 4 v 5 chronos, which every 4gate build other than k4g used (and now, every build will use now), you get 100 vs 110.
The cost of using that 6th chrono on wg research would be roughly 80 minerals for 3 seconds (which I suppose actually isn't that bad of a trade off if you plan on 1-basing).
Actually now that I think about it, I wonder if there's a good 6-chrono all-in in 1.3... maybe I'll start experimenting. You can only even possibly get a 6th chrono in if your chrono boosts are 100% perfect for the entire 107 seconds though, so you'd need to chrono every 18-19 seconds to be safe.
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Will this build be harmed with the new pylon radius decrease?
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This is a really fun build to play if you have a newbie friend. It makes them feel gold because even if they can't execute the build very well you'll easily place into Gold or even Plat and that can encourage them to give more Starcraft games and 1v1 a try. It also teaches the importance of timing and optimized builds even if it's not the best build for teaching someone to macro.
Even with the reduced pylon radius and the warp gate research time increase I feel like this is still a pretty solid build especially if you're not taking it too seriously and just want to own some nerds and enjoy the awesomeness that is warping in zealots on the high ground with OL vision.
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EPT
