EPTif they dont go mass stalkers if find a few corruptors do the job... its the colossi stalker army i simply cant kill
[D]Banelings - solution to the weak 200/200 Z army? - Page 5
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dementrio
678 Posts
if they dont go mass stalkers if find a few corruptors do the job... its the colossi stalker army i simply cant kill | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On November 15 2010 02:35 dementrio wrote: the problem is that 4-5 colossi melt a maxed out army in like 10 seconds. doesnt really mean much if they lose health, unless they are dead my army evaporates... i can see how that can work if toss has a bunch of zeal/sentries but if he goes pure colossi stalker they can intercept a few overlords as they are coming, and stalkers do pretty well again banelings. if they dont go mass stalkers if find a few corruptors do the job... its the colossi stalker army i simply cant kill Read the thread, everything you talk about has already been discussed | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
Would be curious to see what it does to mass marine with competent control form both sides. But I don't think the 200/200 problem is as big of an issue there and baneling/speedling combinations are better.. I'd like to see Chicken Dropping or whatever we nickname this catch on because it is epic. | ||
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Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On November 15 2010 03:17 Tazza wrote: I'd be really scared to do this, because nowadays, toss rarely get much zealots in late game, and opt for a very heavy stalker build. And with stalkers, they can just focus fire ovies, and all the blings are dead Meh. A lot of people come in here saying that it won't work because of overlords getting focus fired or stalkers not taking bonus damage etc. Watch the replays or give it a try, even if you only do it in the unit tester. If you look through the thread all the negative feedback has come from theorycrafters and everyone who has tried it was astounded by the positive results. It's off course not the best thing to combat stalkers. However stalkers are manageable without T3, sentries and colossus are not and for those units banelings help alot since both are pretty slow and so gas intensive that he will not have the ressources to get a shitton of stalkers (and if you let him amass gas units for the entire game without reducing their count, youre doing something wrong anyway). | ||
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Zvendetta
United States321 Posts
As far as "110 supply p vs 110 zerg" and you thinking zerg will NEVER win with pure roach hydra if there are colos, you have never seen +2/+2, or even +1/+1. Generally, the time it takes to get 6 colos is enough time to add corrupters to army mix, but really it comes down to positioning anways. In fact, upgrades are SO important in zvp, i've had games where my 90 food army goes against a 110 supply protoss army w/ colos, but the difference is I had +2/+2 and I won lopsidedly. As long as there is a really small number of air units to deny colo dps. All this "standard" play aside, lately I have been going infester bling in ZvT, trying other things besides muta play which is always a fine line to walk. Minus the fact that you can drop blings on minerals lines (some people will just think its a scouting OL, then bam green goo everywhere), they are extremely effective on tank lines. Siege tanks are the best targets for bling drops, however it does take 2 filled OL's to clear an area of tanks. I use infesters because with FG, i can run my OL's in and drop blings right on top of a rine ball. With the pit, i can get fast hive solely for adrenal glands. However, when it comes down to big armies duking it out, there is a simple solution for people "focus firing down OL's"- thats just adding in empty OL's into the swarm. They help soak up damage and distract the enemy. FG is still the way to go. Seeing how they are armored units, you can actually send speed OL's thru some turrets and they will tank enough damage to drop the payload. edit- While banelings may be *cheap* in terms of cost, the roach costs exactly the same amount as well. 75 minerals, 25 gas (no gas required for building as well, the flip side being they cost 1 full larvae and 2 supply.) Early game, roach is my go to unit, but It would be interesting to see some transitions INTO banelings. | ||
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dementrio
678 Posts
(and if you let him amass gas units for the entire game without reducing their count, youre doing something wrong anyway). this is the problem. i can have a 3 base advantage, but if he has the 200/200 colossi/stalker army he's unstoppable. I can remacro very quickly, sure, maybe I can rebuild the army up to max 4 or 5 times and that single army of his takes everything down. he can kite ultras, stalkers kill brood lords and corruptors, colossi melt everything else. I was hoping this would work but I am not able to pull it off (i tried in ladder one time and mismicroed, then tried in the unit tester and I cant get it to do enough damage). I understand that you would not want to let him get to max, but I think its just wrong that he can turtle on 3 bases while I take the whole map and I still lose. | ||
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Magulina
Sweden152 Posts
His army comp was colossi stalker, and my drops were definately cost-effective. http://rapidshare.com/files/431001575/14_nov_Mag_pack.rar Rehosted the file again might work now >> (I renamed the one with drops so it's easier to find) | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On November 08 2010 16:21 ayadew wrote: I made some unit testing and vs colossi the baneling drop is just barely economically worthwhile. The enemy needs at least 5 colossi clumped together and you need 20+ banelings you also need to take into account that by taking out those collosus you make your roach/hydra army a LOT more cost effective against whats left. | ||
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HollowLord
United States3862 Posts
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VeniVidiVpwn
Canada19 Posts
that was aweseom | ||
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dreamend
64 Posts
really fun! he was around 2100 diamond or something so there was a pretty big skill discrepancy but I guess it shows how well it can work. it sets up nicely to do lots of harass with drops as well, and ling/baneling is great at cracking expansions | ||
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Muggs
United States148 Posts
The biggest thing I have to watch out for in going for banelings/overlord upgrades is that I've been caught trying too hard to go for it. Carpet bombing is a tactic and not a strategy. If the baneling drop doesn't have a a primary army to back it up it's worthless. I haven't watched your videos yet (downstairs watching football) but I'll be sure to later today. | ||
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pwnasaurus
Canada190 Posts
I go roach/hydra into bling bomb for the big engagement. I wrecked his army, and my control isn't even stellar. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/107996-2v2-protoss-zerg-metalopolis | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On November 15 2010 07:31 Magulina wrote: There's a nice replay of me using bling drops vs whitera in this rep pack. I was at 190 supply and knew that he would roll me, so I thought of this thread and built some blings since I already had the tech! His army comp was colossi stalker, and my drops were definately cost-effective. http://rapidshare.com/files/431001575/14_nov_Mag_pack.rar Rehosted the file again might work now >> (I renamed the one with drops so it's easier to find) :D! I had the pleasure of randomly watching your stream and immediately messaged you after the game. Thanks for being so quick with uploading the replays! It's awesome to watch your games against Europe's finest and I think it's great that you're so open towards the community!  + Show Spoiler + //omgjizz my strat vs whitera On November 08 2010 08:53 dreamend wrote: I feel this kind of thing is just too gimmicky to catch on On November 08 2010 09:03 dreamend wrote: you're comparing dropping a few banelings on tanks/scv lines to dropping 20+ banelings onto packs of colossi? come on On November 22 2010 01:41 dreamend wrote: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/107520-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis really fun! he was around 2100 diamond or something so there was a pretty big skill discrepancy but I guess it shows how well it can work. it sets up nicely to do lots of harass with drops as well, and ling/baneling is great at cracking expansions It's certainly nice to see a 2.3k Z critic converted I really liked your macro in that game, your micro and decision-making could take some refinement but extremely solid game overall. On November 23 2010 04:55 pwnasaurus wrote: Works quite well. Here's a game of me vs my friend (~1700 diamond) I go roach/hydra into bling bomb for the big engagement. I wrecked his army, and my control isn't even stellar. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/107996-2v2-protoss-zerg-metalopolis Cool game, I really love that people continuously post about their positive experiences in this thread. It's true that it can start to work against you if you overdo it. It has to play a minor part in your overall gameplan and not be the major goal of it. It's afterall a quick-fix to stall time. (Isn't that always the solution as Z? :D) I hope you guys don't mind I re-up the games to star2.org so the OP has a consistent layout. And don't stop posting reps. Baneling drops are always awesome to watch :D | ||
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BritishBeef
United Kingdom372 Posts
replay #1 Protoss does a DT harras into XP i smelt something fishy going on when i saw a few zealots at the front.. Then later in the replay Protoss has around 185 food of mainly templar zealots immortals and stalkers.. one of the counters to roach hydra ling.. well that was untill the banelings and overlords get involved... i had 199 supply the fight ended with most of my roaches and hydra alive so gg replay#2 Not quite the same as the protoss had a much smaller army but there was some fun whine in this game, so i thoughjt since i was ahead i could pull off a super banedrop and see how he reacts.. lets just say it was a fun game for all... (this is around 2500 diamond btw) | ||
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Lockindal
United States73 Posts
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nK)Duke
Germany936 Posts
On December 13 2010 14:16 Lockindal wrote: on topic of banelings: i dont understand why baneling bombs on mineral lines arent used more. so devastating. anyone mind telling me why? because it uses the moment of surprise. turrets wipe overlord out, and if the other reacts fast enough, you will lose 4 banes + overlord | ||
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1Lamb1Rice
United States435 Posts
On December 13 2010 14:16 Lockindal wrote: on topic of banelings: i dont understand why baneling bombs on mineral lines arent used more. so devastating. anyone mind telling me why? Because if you do this successfully, you're basically saying "Attack me now since you're very behind economically". And if you're not ready to hold a full on attack, you will lose. | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
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